<trackbot> Date: 20 May 2014

<clown> agenda: this

<scribe> Scribenick: joanie

Any new issues or edits for heart beat draft?

JS: One of the things in the last meeting minutes is: While I was on vacation, think of what edits you might want (or not want) in the next heart beat draft

DB: Review the whole document, right?

JS: (confirms)

I didn't get that

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-haspopup

<bgaraventa1979> It appears that aria-haspopup is mapped to role=button in the UIAG, but not to links, should it be mapped to menu there too?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property_table

JS: It's not in the role mapping table
... It's in the states and properties table
... Which roles should I look at in roles?

BG: Under button

JS: (Reads from spec)
... If button has aria-haspopup true, map to role button menu

BG: What should happen when aria-haspopup is applied to links

JS: (Reads)

<clown> Expose as STATE_SYSTEM_HASPOPUP

JS: So if it's on a link, it's telling you it has a popup menu

<clown> From the spec: Indicates that the http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#dfn-element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu

DB: How do we indicated a popup that's not a menu?

JS: At the moment we don't

<bgaraventa1979> tjos ca,e i[ ;ast wjere O wasled wjy cam

JS: aria-haspopup was supposed to be semantic equivalent to visual triangle

<bgaraventa1979> I was asked last week why can't it be applied to modal popups, popup overlays, etc.

DB: Should we do things more general? Why assume it's going to be a menu

<davidb> Why not get rid of aria-haspopup and have aria-haspoprole="foo" to take the guesswork away. (Since wild web and all)

<davidb> or haspopuprole

JD: Agrees with suggestion

<davidb> e.g aria-popuprole="menu"

JS: And the role value would be an aria role
... I'm going to suggest you look for the issue filed by Steve asking why this property is limited to menus.
... It's either 1.1 or 2.0, but I forgoet which.

<bgaraventa1979> I'm happy to support extending this to more than menus

JS: I do get the impression that it has to be "attached"; it can't be another window.

DB: I'm not seeing it 1.1 issues.
... I'll just email Steve

JS: I don't think this is going to make it into the heart beat. :)
... Anything else (quick and dirty edit we can make) that can go into the heartbeat draft?
... The last couple of weeks we resolved issues (e.g. tab panels not live regions)
... I have made these changes.
... I also made sure the document is formatted properly.
... I'm prepared to say to the main group that the UAIG is ready for a heart beat release.

DB: I don't think there's anything to block that.

JS: There's also a change from Apple regarding aria-busy.
... So I made that change in the UAIG.

ACTION-1434 (David): Contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process.

<clown> action-1434?

<trackbot> action-1434 -- David Bolter to Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1434

DB: I wanted to do a few tests first.

<clown> issue-481?

<trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481

DB: As I recall, the consensus was to leave it as SHOULD.
... This may be a courtesy email, or it may become a discussion.
... I think I should probably just send it and I can do the testing later.

JD: This strikes me as being an issue of common sense rather than something that is W3C.

<davidb> agreed

JD: If the object is already defunct before you emit the signal to the platform accessibility tool, you are in danger of a browser crash.

<bgaraventa1979> can it be passed as part of the event? like an arg?

<bgaraventa1979> similare to removeChild

DB: The statement could be more along the lines of notifying ATs what has be removed
... How they do so is up to them

CS: So should it still be a SHOULD
... They don't in IE because of performance concerns

DB: You might want to destroy objects more quickly

JS: Should I change David's action to another date?

DB: Next week is fine

<clown> action-1368?

<trackbot> action-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368

JS: We'll wait for the response from Matt and go from there.

JD: Suggests that perhaps for 2.0 we should consider alternatives to children-changed:removed as this is a cross-platform, cross-toolkit issue

ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events.

JS: That was discussed as part of the previous item.
... The issue got a note and has been closed.

ISSUES and ACTIONS triage: (All) https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23. Start with ACTION-1306

<clown> action-1306?

<trackbot> action-1306 -- Cynthia Shelly to Cynthia to find the right people at MS to talk about UI automation -- due 2013-11-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1306

JS: (reads the issue)

<clown> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-testing-minutes.html#item02

JS: There's a note to see testing minutes (link above)

CS: I have found the right people and they are discussing it.
... I think we can close this issue.

JS: Closed with a note.

<clown> action-1311?

<trackbot> action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2014-01-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311

JS: This is one of mine.
... There was a point where Alex made some changes to the way Firefox emitted

<clown> <table role="presentation" …>

JS: And all the text was joined together.
... In the end Alex changed something back.
... And I think he fixed it. And it turned into:

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435#c9

JS: Quotes Rich from the above comment 9.
... Quotes from the action
... We defer to the spec
... In the role mapping table we say see the roles about presentation
... Which refers back to the spec
... What does it say in the spec?
... The spec is not going to saying anything as specific as an IA2 text frame
... So, I have enough info that I could write something for role table
... for IA2
... I don't know what to say for the other platforms

<clown> \o?

<clown> \o/

JS: We can create a new issue
... And then make new actions for that issue

<scribe> ACTION: Joanie to investigate the ideal ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/20-aapi-irc]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1444 - Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-05-27].

<scribe> ACTION: Cynthia to investigate the ideal UAI mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/20-aapi-irc]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1445 - Investigate the ideal uai mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-05-27].

<clown> issue-661?

<trackbot> issue-661 -- UAIG1.1: Specify how to map children of table/lists with role presentation. -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/661

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<trackbot> Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

<clown> action-1444?

<trackbot> action-1444 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2014-06-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444

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Succeeded: s/the opinion/the impression/
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Inferring Scribes: joanie
Default Present: +1.416.848.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, cyns
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer David_Bolter Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Cynthia
Found Date: 20 May 2014
People with action items: cynthia joanie

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