18:58:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:58:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/20-aapi-irc
18:58:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
18:58:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:58:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:58:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
18:58:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:58:39 <trackbot> Date: 20 May 2014
18:58:48 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
18:58:54 <Zakim> + +1.416.848.aaaa
18:59:30 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
18:59:39 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:59:39 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
18:59:50 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:59:50 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:03 <davidb> Zakim, who is on the call?
19:00:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.416.848.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:14 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:14 <davidb> Zakim, aaaa is David_Bolter
19:00:14 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
19:00:23 <clown> agenda: this
19:00:32 <davidb> Zakim, I am David_Bolter
19:00:32 <Zakim> ok, davidb, I now associate you with David_Bolter
19:00:32 <clown> agenda+ Any new issues or edits for heart beat draft?
19:00:33 <Zakim> +joanie
19:00:45 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1434 (David): Contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process.
19:00:54 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events.
19:01:04 <clown> agenda+ ISSUES and ACTIONS triage: (All) https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23.  Start with ACTION-1306
19:01:09 <joanie> Zakim, joanie is Joanmarie_Diggs
19:01:09 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs; got it
19:01:12 <clown> agenda+ be done.
19:01:13 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
19:01:25 <clown> agenda?
19:02:13 <joanie> Scribenick: joanie
19:02:41 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:03:12 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
19:03:12 <Zakim> sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
19:04:04 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
19:04:04 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
19:09:50 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:09:50 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Any new issues or edits for heart beat draft?" taken up [from clown]
19:09:59 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:10:34 <joanie> JS: One of the things in the last meeting minutes is: While I was on vacation, think of what edits you might want (or not want) in the next heart beat draft
19:10:44 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:10:46 <joanie> DB: Review the whole document, right?
19:11:04 <cyns> zakim, microsoft has me
19:11:04 <Zakim> +cyns; got it
19:11:06 <joanie> JS: (confirms)
19:12:52 <joanie> I didn't get that
19:13:08 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-haspopup
19:14:16 <bgaraventa1979> It appears that aria-haspopup is mapped to role=button in the UIAG, but not to links, should it be mapped to menu there too?
19:14:42 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property_table
19:14:54 <joanie> JS: It's not in the role mapping table
19:15:04 <joanie> JS: It's in the states and properties table
19:15:12 <joanie> JS: Which roles should I look at in roles?
19:15:16 <joanie> BG: Under button
19:15:23 <joanie> JS: (Reads from spec)
19:15:55 <joanie> JS: If button has aria-haspopup true, map to role button menu
19:16:10 <joanie> BG: What should happen when aria-haspopup is applied to links
19:16:19 <joanie> JS: (Reads)
19:16:20 <clown> Expose as STATE_SYSTEM_HASPOPUP
19:16:41 <joanie> JS: So if it's on a link, it's telling you it has a popup menu
19:16:52 <clown> From the spec:  Indicates that the http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#dfn-element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu
19:17:22 <joanie> DB: How do we indicated a popup that's not a menu?
19:17:34 <joanie> JS: At the moment we don't
19:18:02 <bgaraventa1979> tjos ca,e i[ ;ast wjere O wasled wjy cam
19:18:04 <joanie> JS: aria-haspopup was supposed to be semantic equivalent to visual triangle
19:18:42 <bgaraventa1979> I was asked last week why can't it be applied to modal popups, popup overlays, etc.
19:18:52 <joanie> DB: Should we do things more general? Why assume it's going to be a menu
19:21:03 <davidb> Why not get rid of aria-haspopup and have aria-haspoprole="foo" to take the guesswork away. (Since wild web and all)
19:21:19 <davidb> or haspopuprole
19:21:31 <joanie> JD: Agrees with suggestion
19:21:40 <davidb> e.g aria-popuprole="menu"
19:21:42 <joanie> JS: And the role value would be an aria role
19:22:38 <joanie> JS: I'm going to suggest you look for the issue filed by Steve asking why this property is limited to menus.
19:22:56 <joanie> JS: It's either 1.1 or 2.0, but I forgoet which.
19:22:59 <bgaraventa1979> I'm happy to support extending this to more than menus
19:23:41 <joanie> JS: I do get the opinion that it has to be "attached"; it can't be another window.
19:23:49 <joanie> s/the opinion/the impression/
19:24:00 <joanie> DB: I'm not seeing it 1.1 issues.
19:24:08 <joanie> DB: I'll just email Steve
19:24:33 <joanie> JS: I don't think this is going to make it into the heart beat. :)
19:24:57 <joanie> JS: Anything else (quick and dirty edit we can make) that can go into the heartbeat draft?
19:25:27 <joanie> JS: The last couple of weeks we resolved issues (e.g. tab panels not live regions)
19:25:39 <joanie> JS: I have made these changes.
19:26:08 <joanie> JS: I also made sure the document is formatted properly.
19:26:35 <joanie> JS: I'm prepared to say to the main group that the UAIG is ready for a heart beat release.
19:26:59 <joanie> DB: I don't think there's anything to block that.
19:27:30 <joanie> JS: There's also a change from Apple regarding aria-busy.
19:27:39 <joanie> JS: So I made that change in the UAIG.
19:27:44 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:27:44 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1434 (David): Contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process." taken up [from clown]
19:27:51 <clown> action-1434?
19:27:51 <trackbot> action-1434 -- David Bolter to Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN
19:27:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1434
19:28:19 <joanie> DB: I wanted to do a few tests first.
19:28:46 <clown> issue-481?
19:28:47 <trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open
19:28:47 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481
19:28:55 <joanie> DB: As I recall, the consensus was to leave it as SHOULD.
19:29:18 <joanie> DB: This may be a courtesy email, or it may become a discussion.
19:29:33 <joanie> DB: I think I should probably just send it and I can do the testing later.
19:32:36 <joanie> JD: This strikes me as being an issue of common sense rather than something that is W3C.
19:32:59 <davidb> agreed
19:33:31 <joanie> JD: If the object is already defunct before you emit the signal to the platform accessibility tool, you are in danger of a browser crash.
19:36:15 <bgaraventa1979> can it be passed as part of the event? like an arg?
19:37:03 <bgaraventa1979> similare to removeChild
19:37:38 <joanie> DB: The statement could be more along the lines of notifying ATs what has be removed
19:37:46 <joanie> DB: How they do so is up to them
19:38:09 <joanie> CS: So should it still be a SHOULD
19:38:26 <joanie> CS: They don't in IE because of performance concerns
19:38:39 <joanie> DB: You might want to destroy objects more quickly
19:39:01 <joanie> JS: Should I change David's action to another date?
19:39:05 <joanie> DB: Next week is fine
19:39:24 <clown> action-1368?
19:39:29 <trackbot> action-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN
19:39:29 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368
19:42:19 <joanie> JS: We'll wait for the response from Matt and go from there.
19:43:00 <joanie> JD: Suggests that perhaps for 2.0 we should consider alternatives to children-changed:removed as this is a cross-platform, cross-toolkit issue
19:43:24 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:43:24 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events." taken up [from clown]
19:43:42 <joanie> JS: That was discussed as part of the previous item.
19:43:52 <joanie> JS: The issue got a note and has been closed.
19:43:53 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:43:53 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, joanie
19:44:01 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:44:01 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, joanie
19:44:07 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 4
19:44:07 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUES and ACTIONS triage: (All) https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23.  Start with ACTION-1306" taken up [from clown]
19:44:40 <clown> action-1306?
19:44:40 <trackbot> action-1306 -- Cynthia Shelly to Cynthia to find the right people at MS to talk about UI automation -- due 2013-11-19 -- OPEN
19:44:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1306
19:44:57 <joanie> JS: (reads the issue)
19:45:04 <clown> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-testing-minutes.html#item02
19:45:11 <joanie> JS: There's a note to see testing minutes (link above)
19:45:40 <joanie> CS: I have found the right people and they are discussing it.
19:45:45 <joanie> CS: I think we can close this issue.
19:46:20 <joanie> JS: Closed with a note.
19:46:59 <clown> action-1311?
19:46:59 <trackbot> action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2014-01-31 -- OPEN
19:46:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311
19:47:08 <joanie> JS: This is one of mine.
19:47:35 <joanie> JS: There was a point where Alex made some changes to the way Firefox emitted
19:47:38 <clown> <table role="presentation" …>
19:48:19 <joanie> JS: And all the text was joined together.
19:48:28 <joanie> JS: In the end Alex changed something back.
19:49:02 <joanie> JS: And I think he fixed it. And it turned into:
19:49:29 <clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435
19:49:52 <clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435#c9
19:50:22 <joanie> JS: Quotes Rich from the above comment 9.
19:50:57 <joanie> JS: Quotes from the action
19:51:53 <joanie> JS: We defer to the spec
19:52:10 <joanie> JS: In the role mapping table we say see the roles about presentation
19:52:16 <joanie> JS: Which refers back to the spec
19:52:34 <joanie> JS: What does it say in the spec?
19:52:59 <joanie> JS: The spec is not going to saying anything as specific as an IA2 text frame
19:53:18 <joanie> JS: So, I have enough info that I could write something for role table
19:53:28 <joanie> JS: for IA2
19:53:38 <joanie> JS: I don't know what to say for the other platforms
19:56:54 <clown> \o?
19:56:56 <clown> \o/
19:58:37 <joanie> JS: We can create a new issue
19:58:48 <joanie> JS: And then make new actions for that issue
20:00:29 <joanie> ACTION: Joanie to investigate the ideal ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.
20:00:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1444 - Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-05-27].
20:01:14 <joanie> ACTION: Cynthia to investigate the ideal UAI mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.
20:01:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1445 - Investigate the ideal uai mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-05-27].
20:01:15 <clown> issue-661?
20:01:15 <trackbot> issue-661 -- UAIG1.1: Specify how to map children of table/lists with role presentation. -- open
20:01:15 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/661
20:02:58 <joanie> trackbot, help
20:02:58 <trackbot> Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
20:04:39 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
20:05:48 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:05:56 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
20:06:14 <clown> action-1444?
20:06:14 <trackbot> action-1444 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2014-06-03 -- OPEN
20:06:14 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
20:09:04 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
20:09:14 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:09:15 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
20:09:15 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.416.848.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, cyns
20:09:24 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:09:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:10:08 <joanie> present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia
20:10:15 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop