IRC log of aapi on 2014-05-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:58:34 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #aapi

18:58:34 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/20-aapi-irc

18:58:36 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs member

18:58:36 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #aapi

18:58:38 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_PF

18:58:38 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

18:58:39 [trackbot]

Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

18:58:39 [trackbot]

Date: 20 May 2014

18:58:48 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started

18:58:54 [Zakim]

+ +1.416.848.aaaa

18:59:30 [Zakim]

+[GVoice]

18:59:39 [clown]

zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer

18:59:39 [Zakim]

+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it

18:59:50 [clown]

zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer

18:59:50 [Zakim]

ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer

19:00:03 [davidb]

Zakim, who is on the call?

19:00:03 [Zakim]

On the phone I see +1.416.848.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer

19:00:14 [clown]

chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer

19:00:14 [davidb]

Zakim, aaaa is David_Bolter

19:00:14 [Zakim]

+David_Bolter; got it

19:00:23 [clown]

agenda: this

19:00:32 [davidb]

Zakim, I am David_Bolter

19:00:32 [Zakim]

ok, davidb, I now associate you with David_Bolter

19:00:32 [clown]

agenda+ Any new issues or edits for heart beat draft?

19:00:33 [Zakim]

+joanie

19:00:45 [clown]

agenda+ ACTION-1434 (David): Contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process.

19:00:54 [clown]

agenda+ ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events.

19:01:04 [clown]

agenda+ ISSUES and ACTIONS triage: (All) https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23. Start with ACTION-1306

19:01:09 [joanie]

Zakim, joanie is Joanmarie_Diggs

19:01:09 [Zakim]

+Joanmarie_Diggs; got it

19:01:12 [clown]

agenda+ be done.

19:01:13 [Zakim]

+Bryan_Garaventa

19:01:25 [clown]

agenda?

19:02:13 [joanie]

Scribenick: joanie

19:02:41 [bgaraventa1979]

bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi

19:03:12 [bgaraventa1979]

zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa

19:03:12 [Zakim]

sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'

19:04:04 [bgaraventa1979]

zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa

19:04:04 [Zakim]

ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa

19:09:50 [joanie]

Zakim, next item

19:09:50 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Any new issues or edits for heart beat draft?" taken up [from clown]

19:09:59 [cyns]

cyns has joined #aapi

19:10:34 [joanie]

JS: One of the things in the last meeting minutes is: While I was on vacation, think of what edits you might want (or not want) in the next heart beat draft

19:10:44 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

19:10:46 [joanie]

DB: Review the whole document, right?

19:11:04 [cyns]

zakim, microsoft has me

19:11:04 [Zakim]

+cyns; got it

19:11:06 [joanie]

JS: (confirms)

19:12:52 [joanie]

I didn't get that

19:13:08 [clown]

http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-haspopup

19:14:16 [bgaraventa1979]

It appears that aria-haspopup is mapped to role=button in the UIAG, but not to links, should it be mapped to menu there too?

19:14:42 [clown]

http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property_table

19:14:54 [joanie]

JS: It's not in the role mapping table

19:15:04 [joanie]

JS: It's in the states and properties table

19:15:12 [joanie]

JS: Which roles should I look at in roles?

19:15:16 [joanie]

BG: Under button

19:15:23 [joanie]

JS: (Reads from spec)

19:15:55 [joanie]

JS: If button has aria-haspopup true, map to role button menu

19:16:10 [joanie]

BG: What should happen when aria-haspopup is applied to links

19:16:19 [joanie]

JS: (Reads)

19:16:20 [clown]

Expose as STATE_SYSTEM_HASPOPUP

19:16:41 [joanie]

JS: So if it's on a link, it's telling you it has a popup menu

19:16:52 [clown]

From the spec: Indicates that the http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#dfn-element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu

19:17:22 [joanie]

DB: How do we indicated a popup that's not a menu?

19:17:34 [joanie]

JS: At the moment we don't

19:18:02 [bgaraventa1979]

tjos ca,e i[ ;ast wjere O wasled wjy cam

19:18:04 [joanie]

JS: aria-haspopup was supposed to be semantic equivalent to visual triangle

19:18:42 [bgaraventa1979]

I was asked last week why can't it be applied to modal popups, popup overlays, etc.

19:18:52 [joanie]

DB: Should we do things more general? Why assume it's going to be a menu

19:21:03 [davidb]

Why not get rid of aria-haspopup and have aria-haspoprole="foo" to take the guesswork away. (Since wild web and all)

19:21:19 [davidb]

or haspopuprole

19:21:31 [joanie]

JD: Agrees with suggestion

19:21:40 [davidb]

e.g aria-popuprole="menu"

19:21:42 [joanie]

JS: And the role value would be an aria role

19:22:38 [joanie]

JS: I'm going to suggest you look for the issue filed by Steve asking why this property is limited to menus.

19:22:56 [joanie]

JS: It's either 1.1 or 2.0, but I forgoet which.

19:22:59 [bgaraventa1979]

I'm happy to support extending this to more than menus

19:23:41 [joanie]

JS: I do get the opinion that it has to be "attached"; it can't be another window.

19:23:49 [joanie]

s/the opinion/the impression/

19:24:00 [joanie]

DB: I'm not seeing it 1.1 issues.

19:24:08 [joanie]

DB: I'll just email Steve

19:24:33 [joanie]

JS: I don't think this is going to make it into the heart beat. :)

19:24:57 [joanie]

JS: Anything else (quick and dirty edit we can make) that can go into the heartbeat draft?

19:25:27 [joanie]

JS: The last couple of weeks we resolved issues (e.g. tab panels not live regions)

19:25:39 [joanie]

JS: I have made these changes.

19:26:08 [joanie]

JS: I also made sure the document is formatted properly.

19:26:35 [joanie]

JS: I'm prepared to say to the main group that the UAIG is ready for a heart beat release.

19:26:59 [joanie]

DB: I don't think there's anything to block that.

19:27:30 [joanie]

JS: There's also a change from Apple regarding aria-busy.

19:27:39 [joanie]

JS: So I made that change in the UAIG.

19:27:44 [joanie]

Zakim, next item

19:27:44 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "ACTION-1434 (David): Contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process." taken up [from clown]

19:27:51 [clown]

action-1434?

19:27:51 [trackbot]

action-1434 -- David Bolter to Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN

19:27:51 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1434

19:28:19 [joanie]

DB: I wanted to do a few tests first.

19:28:46 [clown]

issue-481?

19:28:47 [trackbot]

issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open

19:28:47 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481

19:28:55 [joanie]

DB: As I recall, the consensus was to leave it as SHOULD.

19:29:18 [joanie]

DB: This may be a courtesy email, or it may become a discussion.

19:29:33 [joanie]

DB: I think I should probably just send it and I can do the testing later.

19:32:36 [joanie]

JD: This strikes me as being an issue of common sense rather than something that is W3C.

19:32:59 [davidb]

agreed

19:33:31 [joanie]

JD: If the object is already defunct before you emit the signal to the platform accessibility tool, you are in danger of a browser crash.

19:36:15 [bgaraventa1979]

can it be passed as part of the event? like an arg?

19:37:03 [bgaraventa1979]

similare to removeChild

19:37:38 [joanie]

DB: The statement could be more along the lines of notifying ATs what has be removed

19:37:46 [joanie]

DB: How they do so is up to them

19:38:09 [joanie]

CS: So should it still be a SHOULD

19:38:26 [joanie]

CS: They don't in IE because of performance concerns

19:38:39 [joanie]

DB: You might want to destroy objects more quickly

19:39:01 [joanie]

JS: Should I change David's action to another date?

19:39:05 [joanie]

DB: Next week is fine

19:39:24 [clown]

action-1368?

19:39:29 [trackbot]

action-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN

19:39:29 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368

19:42:19 [joanie]

JS: We'll wait for the response from Matt and go from there.

19:43:00 [joanie]

JD: Suggests that perhaps for 2.0 we should consider alternatives to children-changed:removed as this is a cross-platform, cross-toolkit issue

19:43:24 [joanie]

Zakim, next item

19:43:24 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events." taken up [from clown]

19:43:42 [joanie]

JS: That was discussed as part of the previous item.

19:43:52 [joanie]

JS: The issue got a note and has been closed.

19:43:53 [joanie]

Zakim, next item

19:43:53 [Zakim]

agendum 3 was just opened, joanie

19:44:01 [joanie]

Zakim, next item

19:44:01 [Zakim]

agendum 3 was just opened, joanie

19:44:07 [joanie]

Zakim, take up item 4

19:44:07 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "ISSUES and ACTIONS triage: (All) https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23. Start with ACTION-1306" taken up [from clown]

19:44:40 [clown]

action-1306?

19:44:40 [trackbot]

action-1306 -- Cynthia Shelly to Cynthia to find the right people at MS to talk about UI automation -- due 2013-11-19 -- OPEN

19:44:40 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1306

19:44:57 [joanie]

JS: (reads the issue)

19:45:04 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-testing-minutes.html#item02

19:45:11 [joanie]

JS: There's a note to see testing minutes (link above)

19:45:40 [joanie]

CS: I have found the right people and they are discussing it.

19:45:45 [joanie]

CS: I think we can close this issue.

19:46:20 [joanie]

JS: Closed with a note.

19:46:59 [clown]

action-1311?

19:46:59 [trackbot]

action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2014-01-31 -- OPEN

19:46:59 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311

19:47:08 [joanie]

JS: This is one of mine.

19:47:35 [joanie]

JS: There was a point where Alex made some changes to the way Firefox emitted

19:47:38 [clown]

<table role="presentation" …>

19:48:19 [joanie]

JS: And all the text was joined together.

19:48:28 [joanie]

JS: In the end Alex changed something back.

19:49:02 [joanie]

JS: And I think he fixed it. And it turned into:

19:49:29 [clown]

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435

19:49:52 [clown]

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435#c9

19:50:22 [joanie]

JS: Quotes Rich from the above comment 9.

19:50:57 [joanie]

JS: Quotes from the action

19:51:53 [joanie]

JS: We defer to the spec

19:52:10 [joanie]

JS: In the role mapping table we say see the roles about presentation

19:52:16 [joanie]

JS: Which refers back to the spec

19:52:34 [joanie]

JS: What does it say in the spec?

19:52:59 [joanie]

JS: The spec is not going to saying anything as specific as an IA2 text frame

19:53:18 [joanie]

JS: So, I have enough info that I could write something for role table

19:53:28 [joanie]

JS: for IA2

19:53:38 [joanie]

JS: I don't know what to say for the other platforms

19:56:54 [clown]

\o?

19:56:56 [clown]

\o/

19:58:37 [joanie]

JS: We can create a new issue

19:58:48 [joanie]

JS: And then make new actions for that issue

20:00:29 [joanie]

ACTION: Joanie to investigate the ideal ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.

20:00:30 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1444 - Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-05-27].

20:01:14 [joanie]

ACTION: Cynthia to investigate the ideal UAI mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.

20:01:14 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1445 - Investigate the ideal uai mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-05-27].

20:01:15 [clown]

issue-661?

20:01:15 [trackbot]

issue-661 -- UAIG1.1: Specify how to map children of table/lists with role presentation. -- open

20:01:15 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/661

20:02:58 [joanie]

trackbot, help

20:02:58 [trackbot]

Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

20:04:39 [Zakim]

-David_Bolter

20:05:48 [Zakim]

-[Microsoft]

20:05:56 [Zakim]

-Bryan_Garaventa

20:06:14 [clown]

action-1444?

20:06:14 [trackbot]

action-1444 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2014-06-03 -- OPEN

20:06:14 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444

20:09:04 [Zakim]

-Joanmarie_Diggs

20:09:14 [Zakim]

-Joseph_Scheuhammer

20:09:15 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended

20:09:15 [Zakim]

Attendees were +1.416.848.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, cyns

20:09:24 [joanie]

Zakim, part

20:09:24 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #aapi

20:10:08 [joanie]

present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia

20:10:15 [joanie]

RRSAgent, stop