Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference -- 07 Mar 2014

<trackbot> Date: 07 March 2014

<cgueret> Hi there!

<HadleyBeeman1> Hi cgueret!

<PhilA> meeting: DWBP Weekly telecon

<scribe> Scribe: Caroline

<yaso> Caroline is scribe today

<cgueret> thx Caroline

No problem! :)

<Ig_Bittencourt> Yes

<cgueret> +1

<PhilA> Agenda:

<PhilA> Ig_Bittencourt Zakim, mute me

<PhilA> PROPOSAL: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-28

<cgueret> +1

<nathalia> +1

<dschwabe> +1

<Ig_Bittencourt> +1

<CarlosIglesias> +1

<deirdrelee> +1

APPROVE last minutes call http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-28

<yaso> +1

<BernadetteLoscio> +1

<newton> +1

<PhilA> APPROVED: last minutes call http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-28

<yaso> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Agenda

London Agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Agenda

<gatemezi> +

Yaso: we should discuss London's Agenda

<gatemezi> s/+ /+

Yaso: we have a proposition for 2 working days for the face to face meeting

<PhilA> HadleyBeeman1: Spoke to Paul Maltby who is director of transparency at the UK Cabinet Office

Hadley: for the first speaking on the face to face probably will be Paul Maltby
... we are waiting for his answer about the time schedule

Antoine: I also asked for the street maps person to come to the face to face meeting

Steve: the street map guy would love to come and speak to us

Phil: if money becomes an issue there are other options

Steve: I just want to found out if there was not restriction about funding him
... Hadley could check if Paul Maltby will speake in the morning

<yaso> Caroline: is it ok, that we will have 2 speakers?

Antoine: I will be not able to stay on the afternoon on the second day

<Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to clarify position on T&S funding generally

Phil: I just want to clarify that is no W3C founding to the face to face meeting

Antoine: I am wondering for what the intervations would be used for the documents
... I think we need more gerenal discussion and aligning different goals for the documents

<PhilA> deirdrelee?

Yaso: we can start discussing the next topics on the face to face agenda regarding Antoine propositions

<Ig_Bittencourt> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter

Ig: my question is about the charter http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter
... the vocabularies deliverable are for April
... just to answer Antoine this discussion would take place on the 2nd day of the face to face meeting
... maybe it is too rearly?

Steve: I think this 2 activities can be done at the same time

Ig: in the agenda it says we should wirte also these 2 documents on vocabulary

<BernadetteLoscio> mute me

deirdrelee: the use cases document should be a note
... hopefully we will have documents ready to agree during the face to face meeting

Steve: I think there is 2 different leves of maturity in this group

<Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to talk about timescales

Steve: some people have an idea what to belong in the document and other people want to discuss what wouls be in the document

PhilA: it is very imporant that the group has a draft and seems to be producing stuff
... the WG should publish something at least every three months
... it shows that is publishes documents, which don't have to be finished
... at the end of the face to face meeting we should have document that will provide at least a draft, which could be changed latter
... it should help to clarify where the group is going
... we do need to get the use cases, and then we could make a start on the vocabularies as well

Hadley: I hear Steve points that we may have different things going on, but I think it is a good thing
... we could make some divisions

<dschwabe> Zaquim, q-

Hadley: I think we may end up adding a few categories hegarding best practices
... I think it would be great to encourage anybody who wants to have these conversations or who wants to start writting

<yaso> ??P#

<adler1> why couldn't we have discussions organized by deliverable sections with supporting use cases and scribes who record salient information into the documents?

<yaso> ack ??P3

Steve: I think we can do all the things we discussed rigth now

<deirdrelee> PhilA: we should aim to have first public working draft of Use Case document after F2F

Steve: we can have the discussion about use cases and at the same time we can put them in the documents
... the document should be based on the use cases almost as foot notes

<PhilA> +1 to BPs based on use cases. That's important

Steve: we are talking and someone is scribing, we are negotiating who is talking and who is scribing, we could do the same at the face to face meeting

<adler1> +1

Yaso: it seems to me that we are slowing the document with the use cases. We should use them to have something to work on

Antoine: we are all meeting today to discuss about the meeting not the minutes of it. I think we now we all agree

<yaso> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Agenda

Yaso: still not a consensus about the proposal agenda
... the question Caroline put earlier: do we want 2 keynote speakers or more of a working agenda?

PhilA: Yaso, you said we don't agree with teh agenda, but I think there is more agreement than we think

<dschwabe> s /finding/funding

Yaso: I just want to finish this discussion to go further to the next topic

PROPOSAL: do we with the agenda that is in the wiki?

Steve: maybe we could change the agenda appearing to be more inclusive of what we just discussed

<gatemezi> No sure to understand the proposal..

Steve: we want to use the use cases to make the documents?

<antoine> Steve++

Steve: we can work on the documents and the use cases at the same time

Vagner: I am no sure that we are clear about what we want with this face to face meeting
... we tried to propose an agenda with very specific deliverables at the end of this face to face meeting in London
... I am nott sure we agree with the deliverables on this face to face meeting
... we must agree with what we want at the end of the meeting
... the agenda proposed on the Wiki it has 3 deliverables for the face to face meeting

<yaso> +1 to Vagner_Br, we still don't have consensus on what we want from the F2F meeting

Vagner: we have to work more in the documents to be able to deliverable this items
... we should have the document of use cases more advanced to be notes
... if each of us assume tasks to wirte the document before London it would be easier

<adler1> IMHO, the goal of the meeting is to get to know each other and learn how to become efficient working together

<deirdrelee> zamim, unmute dschwabe

Yaso: we are not sure what we want from the face to face meeting

<dschwabe> Sorry, there was some confusion on the phone line between Deirdre and me, but I think I fixed it... I should be dschwabe.a (caller)

Vagner: I just want to add some point about my point. My reflection on this is very much connected with the deadlines on the charter

<yaso> ok, dschwabe

Vagner: we must delivery some products on May

<hadleybeeman> +1 to vagner. We do need to deliver things, and should make the most of the time we have together.

<hadleybeeman> (and the time beforehand)

Vagner: if you want to keep this agenda and the deadlines on the charter we must work hard before the face to face meeting

<yaso> +1 to Vagner

Vagner: if we are not ready to do it we should do some changes on the charter

<adler1> the deadlines are creating anxiety

<nathalia> agree with Vagner_Br

PhilA: it is clear that we will not get the public document on May
... the best practices must be grounded on the use cases
... it will set the scope on the work ahead

<antoine> PhilA+++++++++++

<adler1> PhilA+

PhilA: I feel that if we spend the 2 days on the use cases it would be okay
... my preference for a target if you want a specific target is that there is enough information for the use case document
... we could consider the vocab documents
... the use cases are fundamental for any wg
... you get basis to solve the problems

Yaso: it seems that the last topic on the agenda has just been answered by PhilA

deirdreelee: the first point is related to the agenda
... one task about the use cases and the other about the vocabs does not make sense to be runing in paralel

<antoine> Deirdre+

deirdreelee: regarding the use cases we are trying to progress them. At the moment we have 4 use cases
... I suggest the writers speake about them
... I encourage everyone writes about use cases

<gatemezi> s/deidreelee/deirdrelee

Steve: I think this has been a really constructive conversation today
... all of us as a group have not met
... social integration is as important as deliverables

<PhilA> +1 to Steve

<yaso> working is social integration :-D

<cgueret> +1 !

<antoine> +1

Steve: I think the excitment about the deliverables are important, but we should have the moment to get to know each other during the first meeting
... we should give ourselves the freedom to get to know each other so everybody feels they are contributing with the group

<antoine> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/index.php?title=London_2014#Attendees

Antoine: about the discussion on the agenda
... ??

<adler1> +1 antoine

<PhilA> antoine: Sees only 8 people on the attendee list - if people are going they need to add themselves to the list on the wiki

<cgueret> +1

Antoine: I think if we are really 8 people on the meeting there will be a lot of consequences of what we could do during the face to face meeting

Ig: I will attend

Vagner: I am surprise that we should not be pressured on the deadlines
... I though we should follow the deadlines on the charter
... unless we would like to change the deadlines

<adler1> Vagner, I mean that the deadline to produce the first draft 30 days after our meeting is too soon

Hadley: my understading is that the end of the charter is fixed, but we can be flexible with the deliverables in the meantime
... I agree we don't have a lot of time on the WG an each of us don't have much time as well

<adler1> I would propose moving out the 1st draft date another 30-60 days to June or July

Hadley: we should setting a concrete as we can, agenda
... so we each of us can know how and with what we can contribute

PhilA: it says in the charter that we should have the 1st public WG document by may

<adler1> PhilA +1

PhilA: if we can get the use cases document published we are showing progress

PhilA +1

<antoine> +1

<hadleybeeman> +1 to PhilA. Sounds productive to me.

<nathalia> +1

adler1: I think it is not easy to have long conversations on the phone about the use cases
... we can discuss it in person and organize to discuss the use cases

<hadleybeeman> +1 to adler1, telling the marketplace that we're starting with their problems. Well said.

adler1: we are also honoring all the people that have contributed with the use cases
... we will show them that we are actually using the use cases they have contributed with

Yaso: I think we have to work on the agenda during this week
... now we should discuss about the time zone change

<Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to pick up on Deirdre's point

PhilA: deirdrelle said about helping with the use cases

<adler1> +1

<BernadetteLoscio> It is really important to discuss a little more about the use cases

<hadleybeeman> s/deirdelle/deirdrelee

<BernadetteLoscio> +1

PhilA: we must agree on the use cases before the face to face meeting in London

PhilA +1

Yaso: we could use more the mail list
... we should talk more about the use cases document by email

Time Zones

<PhilA> Info - the US changes to Summer Time, i.e. moves ahead this weekend

<Makx> +q

<antoine> Antoine suggest to just pick a slot: it's just for two weeks

<Makx> yes

Makx: I just said 3pm would be more difficult

<PhilA> Makx: 15:00 CET will be more difficult for me, but not impossible

<PhilA> ... I'll go with the majority

Makx: I just go with the majority

PROPOSAL: move the call to 1 hour later, which would be at 9am in USA time zone

<adler1> so the time will remain at 8am ET, but that will be 3pm Brussels time

<gatemezi> +1

<nathalia> +1

<yaso> +1

<adler1> no, 9am ET next week will still be 7 hours later than 9am

<hadleybeeman> +1

<BernadetteLoscio> +1

<dschwabe> s /USA/USA EST/

<Ig_Bittencourt> +1

<adler1> +q

<antoine> +1

<adler1> got it

<cgueret> +1

<yaso> +1

<Makx> abstain

<yaso> It's a permanent change

<GiancarloGuizzardi> As one of the europeans, I am fine with the change

<CarlosIglesias> abstain

<Makx> why don't we refer to UTC?

<Vagner_Br> Steve, my concern is I am sceptical with the possibility of writing a document in a meeting. As far as the wiki is evolving I don't believe we will have a substantive document to discuss about. On the other hand I guess it is to much burden to put upon editor's shoulder. Again, if we don't distribute tasks among the group I guess we may arrive in London with very few to move ahead.

Steve: I would like to organize 2 more use cases
... next week will be about NYC, regarding the programm that runned 3 years ago

<PhilA> Next Week's meeting will be at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=DWBP+Weekly+telecon+Fri+14+March+2014&iso=20140314T09&p1=43&ah=1

Steve: the following on will be about LA
... I hope the time is good and people can participate

Yaso: we should put that on the wiki and I can do that for you

<adler1> +1

<Makx> no i abstained

Yaso: about the time of the follow meetings we all agreed on the proposal that it will be at EST 9am

<PhilA> ACCEPTED: The regular meeting time will be 09:00 Eastern Standard Time

<adler1> suggest we do lightening rounds for use case discussions - each member gets 5 minutes to present a use case

<dschwabe> bye

<hadleybeeman> +1 to adler1

<adler1> next week

bye!

<martin> bye

<Ig_Bittencourt> Bye. Thanks

<BernadetteLoscio> thanks! bye!

<nathalia> bye

<cgueret> thx bye

<CarlosIglesias> bye!

<vanessa_tonini> bye

<GiancarloGuizzardi> bye

<adler1> bye

<GiancarloGuizzardi> -GiancarloGuizzardi

- DRAFT -

Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

07 Mar 2014

Attendees

Contents

London Agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Agenda

Time Zones

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output