W3C

- DRAFT -

HTML Media Task Force Teleconference

18 Feb 2014

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
markw, paulc, johnsim, joesteele, pal, pladd, davide, ddorwin, BobLund, JamilEllis, adrianba, [Microsoft], glenn
Regrets
Chair
paulc
Scribe
joesteele

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 18 February 2014

<paulc> EME heartbeat was published today: http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3670

<scribe> scribenick: joesteele

Agenda, Role call

Previous minutes -- http://www.w3.org/2014/02/04-html-media-minutes.html

<paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Feb/0012.html

Review action items and bugs

paulc: still pinging Wendy on ACTION-61 with no results

<wseltzer> [Still trying... ]

EME status

<paulc> EME heartbeat was published today: http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3670

<wseltzer> [I'll send another follow-up inquiry]

paulc: heartbeat published today
... noted that Robin sent the editors a couple of suggestions to improve boilerplate material

EME bug status

paulc: updated agenda with status since last meeting, let's step through each item today

Bug 17202

paulc: David was going to implement comment #3

ddorwin: no progress

<paulc> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17202

ddorwin: this one is lower priority

Bug 17673

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673

paulc: David was going to implement and get in touch with David Singer

ddorwin: think it was Adrian not me

adrianba: had an email conversation with David Singer about this, got stalled

<paulc> Feb 4 minutes on bug 17673 is here: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/04-html-media-minutes.html#item04

adrianba: explained the situation to him, think the action on David Dorwin was to create a sepratae bug on type supported, my action was to follow up with David Singer
... so my status is that conversation is in progress

ddorwin: my item is in progress

pal: just to confirm those bugs 17673 will remain focused on initData format, correct?
... and new bug will be created for isTypeSupported?

paulc: correct

pal: what is the latest proposal for initData identification?

adrianba: the comments in the bug starting with 7 and referencing emails as well point to this
... not sure the design is specific right now
... trying to determine whether we need to change away from what we had before
... I think David Dorwin proposed that, in the past there has been disagreement with David Singer on this
... think there are two parts
... do we have consensus to move to something other than content type?
... if so -- what is the idenfitier we should use?

pal: the first level is what should the spec define? and 2nd part is what ISO identifier should be used?

adrianba: ISOBMFF has different mechanisms for identifying, we want to be more specific
... a user agent who only wnats to support CENC only needs to write code for that
... previous proposal you at least had to idenfity the information in the file even if you did not use that
... wanted to make it possible for the implementations to be simpler and not have to decode generic ISOBMFF

pal: so we do not have a concrete proposal yet?

adrianba: those things are not necessarily tied together
... we have had no-one object yet to this change, but in the past David Singer has objected
... we also have not had support from this from anyone else
... need concensus from more than one or two people

pal: I would love to be able to weigh in on the concensus one way or the other, but not clear what the proposal is

adrianba: let me try to summarize
... the key question is -- should the spec describe all of the ISOBMFF all of the different boxes that may contain information ot be used to contain initData in a general enough way to allow a browser to see those boxes and pass them via the needkey event, even if the browser only supports CENC
... rather than when the needkey event fires and the content type saying video/mp4 (lot's of discussion about what the type should be)
... we could say the string is "CENC" which means the event data is an array of PSSH boxes
... if it was some other encoding you would have a different string

pal: and the proposal is that the spec would specify the CENC method and would associate a unique string with that?

adrianba: essentially
... believe that once we get done with EME we will have follwoed the pattern we did with MSE and moved the specific information about media format into a spearate doc
... already noted as non-normative
... then we would have the equivalent registry page doing the mappings

pal: ok

<ddorwin> I updated the bug with the two questions Adrian described

<paulc> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673#c41

are we going down that path?

<adrianba> is there anyone on the call that objects?

paulc: provides link to the questoins

joesteele: no objection from me

paulc: any objections from folks on this?

pladd: sounds good

ddorwin: already in a hole with isTypeSupported so this is progress

Bug 17682

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682

ddorwin: this is low priority but in my queue

Bug 17750

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750

adrianba: I started to look at this, think I need some more study of the current language
... think I talked about my instincts on this last time, has not changed, but David is asking a very precise question of a precise definition
... not sure if we have an implementation IE of schedule intact
... not looking for more info -- just time

Bug 18515

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515

paulc: status was that Jerry would ask for an editor to implement

jdsmith: have not done that yet, working with Adrian

Bug 20944

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944

paulc: no progress yet

<paulc> ACTION-62?

<trackbot> ACTION-62 -- Paul Cotton to Report back about the plan for 20944 due 2013-12-15 -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/62

Bug 21798

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21798

paulc: David was going to generate a response

ddorwin: 3rd on my list
... still pending

Bug 23619

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23619

paulc: Adrian was going to discuss with Travis at Microsoft

adrianba: I have, trying to find a reference
... will find it offline and add to the bug

Bug 23828

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828

paulc: this one is paired with 23827 -- low priority

<paulc> Paired with 23827

Bug 24025

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025

paulc: add optional parameters to constructor

markw: did add a use case to the bug but only about 10 min ago

paulc: what are the next steps

<paulc> See https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025#c9

+q

paulc: bug 24082 is related
... think we should move on at this point
... other members of the team should add use cases

<paulc> See Joe's use case(s): https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24082#c1

joesteele: added some use cases to 24082

Bug 24216

Bug 24026

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24026

ddorwin: on my todo list but low priority

24027

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24027

paulc: generic data initialization solution for ISOBMFF, mark agreed to make a proposal

markw: not a detailed change proposal, more of an outline, but if folks agree should be simple

<paulc> See proposal in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24027#c6

paulc: folks should review this comment
... before next meeting if possible

Bug 24081

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24081

paulc: Ready state is too limiting

ddorwin: not done yet -- pretty far reaching change
... covers a lot of text

Bug 24216

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216

paulc: Adrian said Jerry was looking at this - Jerry what is the status?

jdsmith: meh
... looking in my email -- give me a few

Bug 24270

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24270

paulc: Jan 28th David made a partial change, David is there more work pending?

ddorwin: we kinda inverted the original intent of the bug, now it is lower priority
... but we are in agreement and I have what I need

Bug 24232

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24323

joesteele: will be looking at this this week

Bug 24368

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24368

paulc: Jerry was going to review proposal

jdsmith: still catching up -- can talk about other one now

Bug 24216

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216

jdsmith: David made some proposals where key are detached and re-used to play different content
... we don't have support to allow this, detachment is not synchronous, he pointed out issues that can occur
... we do not have a prominent use case for this
... don't know all of the use cases folks would have for this

+q

ddorwin: don't know how common this is -- was concerned that because this is an object now all kinds of things could happen

<paulc> see Joe's use case: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216#c1

ddorwin: this came up because of the way the API is designed, might be a corner case no one will use
... just under specified
... don't think this is possible to be smooth in most implementations

paulc: as Jerry said this should be simple -- low value use case

jdsmith: this would favor option #1 -- have to stop playback
... options were
... 1. allow detaching when stopped
... 2 allow detach while in the process of stopping
... 3 define detaching events so you have a clean notification

ddorwin: my recommendation was for #2

jdsmith: I could live with #2 also

joesteele: I could live with 1 or 2

paulc: should we shoot for option 2 and try for agreement
... any objections on the call?
... hearing no objections -- David that is on your queue

Bug 24381

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24381

paulc: setMediaKeys appears superfluous -- Adrian was looking for dup. bug

adrianba: yes it was a bug 20337 we resolved a year ago

paulc: that is an MSE bug -- does not make sense
... https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20337
... are you saying if we act on this bug it would reverse the earlier bug?

adrianba: yes

paulc: I suggest editors reject and point to that earlier bug
... resolved as a duplicate already

Bug 24119

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24199

ddorwin: I will implement the solution in this bug, once the other clearKey bugs is done, another low priority bug

Bug 24673

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24673

paulc: make content type string check case-sensitive

ddorwin: we made keysystem string case-sensitive, this would make consistent

paulc: any comments from the floor on this bug?

adrianba: I wonder if this is worth changing, think our goal is to use the same code as when we receive a content string over the wire
... don't believe that is case-sensistive

paulc: I will put that in your queue then

markw: will you see a difference between case-sensitive and string-equality Unicode-code point equivalence
... wonder what exactly is meant here?

paulc: most people who handle have four or five different use cases

adrianba: not clear to me that in general that the data gets sent with those alternate characters given the strings we are talking about

markw: we should use terminiology that is clear about that

dddorwin: should probably use lower-case ascii

joesteele: might be useful to refer to the HTTP RFC for language

paulc: sounds like we have a couple of folks who could add comments to this bug
... should be simple but clear as to which cases we are covering
... gone through all the outstanding bugs -- do we meet next week or in two weeks?
... did not appear to get more work done in the extra week
... David you have a lot on your queue - what is your opinion?

ddorwin: we should meet when there are concrete things to discuss - not just stuff in the queue
... no reason for a meeting if folks have not done the reading

paulc: meeting seems to trigger action in some cases
... for next meeting I will try to add more information about progress on the bugs
... propose we meet again in two weeks -- March 4th

+1

paulc: ok -- adjounred

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found ScribeNick: joesteele
Inferring Scribes: joesteele
Default Present: markw, paulc, johnsim, joesteele, pal, pladd, davide, ddorwin, BobLund, JamilEllis, adrianba, [Microsoft], glenn
Present: markw paulc johnsim joesteele pal pladd davide ddorwin BobLund JamilEllis adrianba [Microsoft] glenn
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Feb/0012.html
Found Date: 18 Feb 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/18-html-media-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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