15:56:29 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:56:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/18-html-media-irc
15:56:31 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:56:31 Zakim has joined #html-media
15:56:33 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:56:33 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:34 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:56:34 Date: 18 February 2014
15:59:12 markw has joined #html-media
15:59:45 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Feb/0012.html
15:59:53 johnsim has joined #html-media
16:00:03 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:09 +markw
16:00:17 zakim, what is the code?
16:00:17 the conference code is 63342 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
16:00:47 +[Microsoft]
16:00:57 joesteele has joined #html-media
16:00:58 +[Microsoft.a]
16:00:59 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:00:59 +paulc; got it
16:01:11 zakim, [microsoft.a] is me
16:01:11 +johnsim; got it
16:01:22 BobLund has joined #html-media
16:01:45 pladd has joined #html-media
16:01:50 EME heartbeat was published today: http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3670
16:01:54 +AWK
16:02:01 Zakim, AWK is me
16:02:01 +joesteele; got it
16:02:27 +pal
16:02:32 pal has joined #html-media
16:02:36 davide has joined #html-media
16:02:48 +pladd
16:03:04 +davide
16:03:05 +ddorwin
16:03:19 scribenick: joesteele
16:03:23 chair: paulc
16:03:48 JamilEllis has joined #html-media
16:03:54 +BobLund
16:03:55 Topic: Agenda, Role call
16:03:59 Zakim, who is here?
16:03:59 On the phone I see markw, paulc, johnsim, joesteele, pal, pladd, davide, ddorwin, BobLund
16:04:02 On IRC I see JamilEllis, davide, pal, pladd, BobLund, joesteele, johnsim, markw, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, ddorwin, wseltzer, trackbot
16:04:06 Previous minutes -- http://www.w3.org/2014/02/04-html-media-minutes.html
16:04:20 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Feb/0012.html
16:04:24 +JamilEllis
16:04:28 adrianba has joined #html-media
16:04:53 +[Microsoft]
16:05:00 zakim, Microsoft is me
16:05:00 +adrianba; got it
16:05:32 Topic: Review action items and bugs
16:06:08 Zakim, who is here?
16:06:08 On the phone I see markw, paulc, johnsim, joesteele, pal, pladd, davide, ddorwin, BobLund, JamilEllis, adrianba
16:06:09 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:10 On IRC I see adrianba, JamilEllis, davide, pal, pladd, BobLund, joesteele, johnsim, markw, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, ddorwin, wseltzer, trackbot
16:06:10 On the phone I see markw, paulc, johnsim, joesteele, pal, pladd, davide, ddorwin, BobLund, JamilEllis, adrianba
16:06:36 paulc: still pinging Wendy on ACTION-61 with no results
16:06:49 [Still trying... ]
16:07:15 Topic: EME status
16:07:18 EME heartbeat was published today: http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3670
16:07:18 [I'll send another follow-up inquiry]
16:07:27 paulc: heartbeat published today
16:07:56 ... noted that Robin sent the editors a couple of suggestions to improve boilerplate material
16:08:12 Topic: EME bug status
16:08:40 paulc: updated agenda with status since last meeting, let's step through each item today
16:08:45 Topic: Bug 17202
16:09:03 paulc: David was going to implement comment #3
16:09:07 ddorwin: no progress
16:09:07 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17202
16:09:27 ddorwin: this one is lower priority
16:09:34 Topic: Bug 17673
16:09:37 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
16:09:53 paulc: David was going to implement and get in touch with David Singer
16:10:01 ddorwin: think it was Adrian not me
16:10:31 adrianba: had an email conversation with David Singer about this, got stalled
16:10:54 Feb 4 minutes on bug 17673 is here: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/04-html-media-minutes.html#item04
16:11:01 ... explained the situation to him, think the action on David Dorwin was to create a sepratae bug on type supported, my action was to follow up with David Singer
16:11:39 adrianba: so my status is that conversation is in progress
16:11:48 ddorwin: my item is in progress
16:11:55 q+
16:12:29 pal: just to confirm those bugs 17673 will remain focused on initData format, correct?
16:12:38 ... and new bug will be created for isTypeSupported?
16:12:43 paulc: correct
16:12:57 pal: what is the latest proposal for initData identification?
16:13:39 adrianba: the comments in the bug starting with 7 and referencing emails as well point to this
16:13:47 ... not sure the design is specific right now
16:14:07 ... trying to determine whether we need to change away from what we had before
16:14:31 jdsmith has joined #html-media
16:14:37 +[Microsoft]
16:14:38 ... I think David Dorwin proposed that, in the past there has been disagreement with David Singer on this
16:14:52 ... think there are two parts
16:15:06 ... do we have consensus to move to something other than content type?
16:15:14 ... if so -- what is the idenfitier we should use?
16:15:45 pal: the first level is what should the spec define? and 2nd part is what ISO identifier should be used?
16:16:07 adrianba: ISOBMFF has different mechanisms for identifying, we want to be more specific
16:16:21 ... a user agent who only wnats to support CENC only needs to write code for that
16:16:36 ... previous proposal you at least had to idenfity the information in the file even if you did not use that
16:16:58 ... wanted to make it possible for the implementations to be simpler and not have to decode generic ISOBMFF
16:17:09 pal: so we do not have a concrete proposal yet?
16:17:24 adrianba: those things are not necessarily tied together
16:17:41 ... we have had no-one object yet to this change, but in the past David Singer has objected
16:17:52 ... we also have not had support from this from anyone else
16:18:06 ... need concensus from more than one or two people
16:18:36 pal: I would love to be able to weigh in on the concensus one way or the other, but not clear what the proposal is
16:18:46 adrianba: let me try to summarize
16:19:40 ... the key question is -- should the spec describe all of the ISOBMFF all of the different boxes that may contain information ot be used to contain initData in a general enough way to allow a browser to see those boxes and pass them via the needkey event, even if the browser only supports CENC
16:19:53 glenn has joined #html-media
16:20:23 ... rather than when the needkey event fires and the content type saying video/mp4 (lot's of discussion about what the type should be)
16:20:43 ... we could say the string is "CENC" which menas the event data is an array of PSSH boxes
16:20:44 +glenn
16:20:53 ... if it was some other encoding you would have a different string
16:21:15 pal: and the proposal is that the spec would specify the CENC method and would associate a unique string with that?
16:21:22 adrianba: essentially
16:21:46 ... believe that once we get done with EME we will have follwoed the pattern we did with MSE and moved the specific information about media format into a spearate doc
16:21:51 ... already noted as non-normative
16:22:08 ... then we would have the equivalent registry page doing the mappings
16:22:11 pal: ok
16:22:17 q?
16:22:19 ack pal
16:22:48 I updated the bug with the two questions Adrian described
16:23:12 s/menas/means/
16:23:14 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673#c41
16:23:32 are we going down that path?
16:23:36 is there anyone on the call that objects?
16:23:46 -BobLund
16:23:56 paulc: provides link to the questoins
16:24:07 joesteele: no objection from me
16:24:23 +BobLund
16:24:42 paulc: any objections from folks on this?
16:25:00 pladd: sounds good
16:25:21 ddorwin: already in a hole with isTypeSupported so this is progress
16:25:35 Topic: Bug 17682
16:25:39 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682
16:25:56 ddorwin: this is low priority but in my queue
16:26:02 Topic: Bug 17750
16:26:05 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750
16:26:36 adrianba: I started to look at this, think I need some more study of the current language
16:27:08 ... think I talked about my instincts on this last time, has not changed, but David is asking a very precise question of a precise definition
16:27:38 ... not sure if we have an implementation IE of schedule intact
16:27:44 ... not looking for more info -- just time
16:27:48 Topic: Bug 18515
16:27:51 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515
16:28:10 paulc: status was that Jerry would ask for an editor to implement
16:28:26 jdsmith: have not done that yet, working with Adrian
16:29:19 Topic: Bug 20944
16:29:23 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944
16:29:29 paulc: no progress yet
16:29:29 ACTION-62?
16:29:29 ACTION-62 -- Paul Cotton to Report back about the plan for 20944 due 2013-12-15 -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN
16:29:29 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/62
16:29:38 Topic: Bug 21798
16:29:43 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21798
16:29:54 paulc: David was going to generate a response
16:29:58 ddorwin: 3rd on my list
16:30:04 ... still pending
16:30:13 Topic: Bug 23619
16:30:16 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23619
16:30:29 paulc: Adrian was going to discuss with Travis at Microsoft
16:30:40 adrianba: I have, trying to find a reference
16:31:12 ... will find it offline and add to the bug
16:31:31 Topic: Bug 23828
16:31:34 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828
16:31:52 paulc: this one is paired with 23827 -- low priority
16:31:54 Paired with 23827
16:32:02 Topic: Bug 24025
16:32:05 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025
16:32:22 paulc: add optional parameters to constructor
16:32:34 markw: did add a use case to the bug but only about 10 min ago
16:32:41 paulc: what are the next steps
16:32:42 See https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025#c9
16:32:53 +q
16:33:17 paulc: bug 24082 is related
16:33:38 ... think we should move on at this point
16:33:54 ack joe
16:34:14 ... other members of the team should add use cases
16:34:37 See Joe's use case(s): https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24082#c1
16:34:38 joesteele: added some use cases to 24082
16:35:06 Topic: Bug 24216
16:35:23 Topic: Bug 24026
16:35:27 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24026
16:35:30 -davide
16:35:38 ddorwin: on my todo list but low priority
16:35:44 Topic: 24027
16:35:46 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24027
16:36:06 paulc: generic data initialization solution for ISOBMFF, mark agreed to make a proposal
16:36:09 +davide
16:36:25 markw: not a detailed change proposal, more of an outline, but if folks agree should be simple
16:36:32 See proposal in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24027#c6
16:36:34 paulc: folks should review this comment
16:36:49 ... before next meeting if possible
16:37:00 Topic: Bug 24081
16:37:03 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24081
16:37:13 paulc: Ready state is tool limiting
16:37:22 ddorwin: not done yet -- pretty far reaching change
16:37:28 ... covers a lot of text
16:37:40 Topic: Bug 24216
16:37:44 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216
16:38:03 paulc: Adrian said Jerry was looking at this - Jerry what is the status?
16:38:12 jdsmith: meh
16:38:34 ... looking in my email -- give me a few
16:38:44 Topic: Bug 24270
16:38:47 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24270
16:39:12 paulc: Jan 28th David made a partial change, David is there more work pending?
16:39:27 ddorwin: we kinda inverted the original intent of the bug, now it is lower priority
16:39:35 ... but we are in agreement and I have what I need
16:39:44 Topic: Bug 24232
16:39:49 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24323
16:40:33 joesteele: will be looking at this this week
16:40:40 Topic: Bug 24368
16:40:43 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24368
16:40:57 paulc: Jerry was going to review proposal
16:41:11 jdsmith: still catching up -- can talk about other one now
16:41:15 Topic: Bug 24216
16:41:19 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216
16:41:52 jdsmith: David made some proposals where key are detached and re-used to play different content
16:42:18 ... we don't have support to allow this, detachment is not synchronous, he pointed out issues that can occur
16:42:29 ... we do not have a prominent use case for this
16:42:47 ... don't know all of the use cases folks would have for this
16:42:48 +q
16:43:11 ddorwin: don't know how common this is -- was concerned that because this is an object now all kinds of things could happen
16:43:37 ack joe
16:44:39 see Joe's use case: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216#c1
16:44:59 ddorwin: this came up because of the way the API is designed, might be a corner case no one has used
16:45:10 ... just under specified
16:46:14 ... don't think this is possible to be smooth in most implementations
16:46:26 paulc: as Jerry said this should be simple -- low value use case
16:46:40 jdsmith: this would favor option #1 -- have to stop playback
16:47:04 ... options were
16:47:11 ... 1. allow detaching when stopped
16:47:26 ... 2 allow detach while in the process of stopping
16:47:40 ... 3 define detaching events so you have a clean notification
16:47:52 ddorwin: my recommendation was for #2
16:48:04 jdsmith: I could live with #2 also
16:48:32 joesteele: I could live with 1 or 2
16:48:44 paulc: should we shoot for option 2 and try for agreement
16:48:58 ... any objections on the call?
16:49:08 ... hearing no objections -- David that is on your queue
16:49:29 Topic: Bug 24381
16:49:32 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24381
16:49:49 paulc: setMediaKeys appears superfluous -- Adrian was looking for dup. bug
16:50:07 adrianba: yes it was a bug 20327 we resolved a year ago
16:50:45 paulc: that is an MSE bug -- does not make sense
16:50:54 s/bug 20327/bug 20337/
16:51:09 paulc: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20337
16:51:36 ... are you saying if we act on this bug it would reverse the earlier bug?
16:51:39 adrianba: yes
16:51:52 paulc: I suggest editors reject and point to that earlier bug
16:52:23 ... resolved as a duplicate already
16:52:29 Topic: Bug 24119
16:52:32 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24199
16:52:59 ddorwin: I will implement the solution in this bug, once the other clearKey bugs is done, another low priority bug
16:53:06 Topic: Bug 24673
16:53:09 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24673
16:53:23 paulc: make content type string check case-insensitivie
16:53:44