See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2014
<Joshue108> CSUN update – meeting confirmed
<Kathy> scribe: Kathy
<BarryJohnson> Are there "Scribe" instructions?
<AWK> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140211misc/results#x2670
Joshue - three comments
AWK: Worry that the procedure is saying that you do that and you meet the success criteria. We need to make sure that they have captions
Loretta: tried to capture the general requirements and this would be combined with how to do this in the specific technology
AWK: people going through the techniques people may not realize they need to look at the general technique as well.
Loretta: this information would be in the understanding doc and it would be an issue for other techniques as well
Joshue: accessibility of player controls is something we need to consider too
<AWK> Here's the How To Meet for 1.2.2: http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#qr-media-equiv-captions
Loretta: the issue for the controls being accessible, we tried to separate the concerns because it gets complex
<Joshue108> s/we need to consider too
<Joshue108> 16:13/we may need to consider too
Loretta: may not be apparent that there are issues with HTML media element
AWK: may want to add an advisory note to remind people that they need to look at the captions and controls
Loretta: info is in the understanding document
<AWK> G87: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G87
Loretta: caption track is covered under G87
Joshue: is there anything that we can give that would provide guidance for specific information
Loretta: we can add to this technique
Joshue: test procedure is clear
David: In the new technique, we may want to add to the test procedure about timing and captions
Loretta: that would go into the
general technique
... this is an "and"
<David_> +1
<Joshue108> +q
AWK: should people go to how to meet to find this information
Loretta: the group could reconsider
Joshue: we don't want people coming to the techniques to have to do alot of digging
AWK: for the tool support, there is user agent notes in the technique
Loretta: we could add information for polyfills
Joshue: have used this a bit, anyone else have experience in this
AWK: this is an area that is in rapid flux
Joshue: do you still need polyfills
David: there may be a simple way; for example, we could add information to the test procedure with link to the technique
Joshue: This is something that we will come back to
Loretta: we need to revisit the understanding document where there are multiple techniques and see if we want to cross reference etc
<AWK> ISSUE: we need to revisit the understanding document where there are multiple techniques and see if we want to cross reference etc
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-16 - We need to revisit the understanding document where there are multiple techniques and see if we want to cross reference etc. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/16/edit>.
Joshue: this could help make the documents more accessible. This will make it more usable
AWK: the other item is a minor editorial
Loretta: that is a good edit
Joshue: the other comments we will come back when we talk about cross referencing
Loretta: we should keep audio description and captions separate
<AWK> I see it now: captions text tracks provide the dialogue and also include other sounds important to understanding the video. subtitles contain only the dialogue
Joshue: we should clarify the sentence "captions text tracks provide the dialogue and also include other sounds important to understanding the video"
Loretta: we can add that to the work list
<AWK> Change to: captions text tracks provide a text version of the dialogue and other sounds important to understanding the video. subtitles contain only the dialogue
<David_> include written record other sounds important to understanding
Joshue: make the change
... abou the line If other audio information is important to
understanding the video, a subtitle track will not be
sufficient to meet the success criteria." Does this relate to
use of subtitles for audio description? If so, this may be
better as " does this refer to audio information
Loretta: this technique refers to captions, but says that subtitles will not be sufficient
AWK: sound effects are not needed in subtitles
David: does North America have
the same definition for subitles
... we should include definition
AWK: there is a note for
that
... could refer to the WCAG glossary
<David_> Joshue can you describe AD as you understand it?
Joshue: any other comments?
RESOLUTION: accept as amended
Loretta: this is an advisory technique
Andrew: same conversation about impacting how to meet
AWK: how does this meet
1.2.1
... this is not providing the text alternative
Loretta: this is providing and audio description for the video
AWK: i agree
Joshue: Sailesh comment - this is
advisory
... my comments, is audio description generally sythesized
Loretta: this is the first instance
Joshue: had a few editorial edits
<David_> yes that is becoming more popular... synthesized AD
Joshue: confused about 1.2.7
Loretta: can create the descriptions, but you may have a longer description that what fits in the gap.
Joshue: so you can extend the gap to make it fit
Loretta: yes
... could use ARIA live regions but not timed and there is no
way pause
Joshue: clarify the language would help
<Joshue108> Note that it will be sufficient for 1.2.7 only if the user agent has the ability to stop the video to allow the extended audio description to fit
Joshue: what about this suggested text?
AWK: would this go into the status
Joshue: adding the word "fit" makes it clearer
AWK: it is in that status which means it is not in the technique. Does this need to be a note under applicability
Joshue: take a look at the WIKI under status
AWK: if we are approving the text, then we should put it in applicability
Joshue: if we approve then we will move to the applicability
<Loretta> I wonder if some IP has decided that I'm using too much bandwidth and decided to throttle me.
<Loretta> Welcome to the world of non-network-neutrality?
Joshue: do you agree with the changes?
<AWK> Note that it will be sufficient for 1.2.7 only if the user agent has the ability to pause the video to allow the extended audio description to play completely without overlapping other important audio in the primary program.
AWK: another option
<Ryladog> +1
David: likes the simplicity of AWK version
Joshue: like the indicator of the problem
<Loretta> am I still here? Lost skype again. :-(
Joshue: the second comment was more word smithing
Loretta: yes
Joshue: any objections
... hearing none, will make the edits
... last comment is on audio description cues
... should we add a bit about user experience
AWK: My change is in there now
Joshue: I suggest ignoring the
last comment
... any objections
<BarryJohnson> No sounds good
RESOLUTION: accepted as amended
AWK: two bullets are almost the same
<David_> refresh ... I have a comment
Loretta: should this just be an example of F23 or should it be a separate failure
<AWK> F23: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F23
David: i agree with that
Joshue: yes sounds ok
... would be one less failure
AWK: if it is separate, it would capture a specific issue. Comes from the procedure which would be different from F23
Loretta: yes but it would get away from the wording issue
AWK: question about Why is the
"muted" attribute a problem for 1.4.2?
... so this did not seem necessary in the procedure
Joshue: could be both, stand on its own or combine
David: if it stands on its own, advantage that people are thinking about playing sound so they may miss some details
Joshue: agree
... preference or objectives to keeping them separate
Loretta: no opinion
AWK: like them separate; enough
details for it to be separate
... can we flip 4 & 5
David: suggested some language
<Ryladog> +1
+1
Joshue: we will keep them separate
David: here is my comment
Perhaps make all the conditions of the test true... by making 4 and 5 like this
Check if the element is missing a muted attribute.
Check if a command or control to stop or pause the media element is missing.
Joshue: like the change and makes the expected results easier to parse
+1
<Joshue108> +1
<Ryladog> +1
<Kathleen> +1
AWK: instead of saying "is
missing" ... say "does not have"
... will edit the WIKI
Joshue: Kathleen had comment on
failure example 1
... any objection to Kathleen's comment
<Ryladog> +1
Joshue: Andrew can you add the suggested text
<Joshue108> and because there does not appear to be any controls to allow the user to stop the video
Loretta: no objection to the text change
Joshue: my comments refer to the custom controls text
Loretta: that makes sense
<Ryladog> +1
Joshue: change is in the description
+1
Joshue: also update the test procedure so the language mirrors the description
AWK: may be implied in this document
<Kathleen> LOL!
Joshue: just a suggestion
... David's suggestions have been added in the test
procedure
... any objections?
RESOLUTION: accept as amended
AWK: we will have a face to face
on Tuesday
... we have not picked the time
... are people planning other activities like the keynote
The keynote is a 6pm
AWK: 9-5
... we have logistics and agenda to figure out
... proposed agenda will be next week
Katie: question, will we still have the call?
AWK: we will have remote access by phone
Joshue: major need for techniques
and for the working group to create techniques
... we divert some of our time to creating techniques
... encourage people to create techniques and contribute
David: government of Canada is on GitHub so they can create techniques
AWK: before you do that, we need
to provide the struture and XML structure
... we need to get that in place first
Joshue: get the group up to speed on that
AWK: to add to the this, we have
the outside group on the techniques task force but we need
other techniques from mobile and congitive. Everyone should be
working on and contributing to 3 techniques for each 6 month
cycle.
... people will sign up for techniques
... we can connect people for the technical parts if people are
not comfortable
<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ToDo
<AWK> Kathy: make sure to invite the TFs to any training on technique writing.
<AWK> Scribe: AWK
LGR: the "toDo" page is a listing
of proposed technique, some are assigned to people
already
... there are many techniques claimed by a small number of
people
<Joshue108> AWK: We need to structure this list a little better. We can mail people when its ready. Please just look at it, and make a note of what you are interested in.
<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
<BarryJohnson> Are there instructions on how to scribe and what steps are needed to capture all of the elements of the minutes?
<AWK_> Trackbot, end meeting
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