None.
16:01:10 <azaroth> zakim, aadd is me
Robert Sanderson: zakim, aadd is me ←
16:01:10 <ivan> zakim, aadd is azaroth
Ivan Herman: zakim, aadd is azaroth ←
16:01:11 <Zakim> +azaroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth; got it ←
16:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd' ←
16:02:43 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
Markus Gylling: zakim, who is here? ←
16:02:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see tzviya, liza, Xiaoqian, [IPcaller], +1.734.904.aacc, azaroth, ivan, Stearns, mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tzviya, liza, Xiaoqian, [IPcaller], +1.734.904.aacc, azaroth, ivan, Stearns, mgylling ←
16:02:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, azaroth, Bill_Kasdorf, Vincent_Gros, liza, tzviya, dauwhe, mgylling, xiaoqian, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, astearns, plinss, Liam|Snow, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see tmichel, azaroth, Bill_Kasdorf, Vincent_Gros, liza, tzviya, dauwhe, mgylling, xiaoqian, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, astearns, plinss, Liam|Snow, trackbot ←
16:03:18 <liza> NO PRESSURE
16:03:41 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:03:47 <tmichel> zakim, ??P13 is me
Thierry Michel: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
16:03:47 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it ←
16:03:51 <ivan> zakim, aacc is Bill_Kasdorf
Ivan Herman: zakim, aacc is Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:03:51 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf; got it ←
16:04:51 <Zakim> +Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert ←
16:04:52 <liza> AHEM
16:04:59 <ivan> zakim, pick a victim
Ivan Herman: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:05:00 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose liza
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose liza ←
16:05:17 <liza> HEY WAIT WHAT
16:05:18 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky
Zakim IRC Bot: +JeanKaplansky ←
16:05:41 <mgylling> scribe: liza
(Scribe set to Liza Daly)
16:05:52 <liza> OKAY FINE
OKAY FINE ←
16:06:25 <liza> Markus: One additional agenda item: guest introduction and collaboration between Chinese Digital Publishing Community Group
Markus Gylling: One additional agenda item: guest introduction and collaboration between Chinese Digital Publishing Community Group ←
16:06:35 <liza> DON'T TEMPT ME
DON'T TEMPT ME ←
16:06:46 <mgylling> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0019.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0013.html
Markus Gylling: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0019.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0013.html ←
16:06:49 <liza> Markus: Last week's minutes need approval
Markus Gylling: Last week's minutes need approval ←
16:07:02 <Zakim> +madi
Zakim IRC Bot: +madi ←
16:07:03 <liza> Markus: Approved
Markus Gylling: Approved ←
16:07:06 <ivan> Topic: Chinese DPUB Community Group
16:07:28 <liza> Markus: Xiaoqian is introduced
Markus Gylling: Xiaoqian is introduced
Xiaoqian (W3C): You can call me Cindy ←
16:08:12 <Madi> Welcome Cindy!
Madi Solomon: Welcome Cindy! ←
16:08:45 <liza> Xiaoqian: Digital Publishing Interest Group formed in China to address copyright issues
Xiaoqian (W3C): Digital Publishing Interest Group formed in China to address copyright issues ←
16:09:39 <liza> Xiaoqian: There is eagerness to enter this industry, but not enough standardization. Group formed to share concerns about content protection
Xiaoqian (W3C): There is eagerness to enter this industry, but not enough standardization. Group formed to share concerns about content protection
Xiaoqian (W3C): We want to see cooperation between the Chinese industry and other countries despite differences in language and culture ←
16:10:39 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:10:49 <liza> Xiaoqian: We want to translate documents into Chinese and get Chinese industry to publish their concerns to the rest of the world
Xiaoqian (W3C): We want to translate documents into Chinese and get Chinese industry to publish their concerns to the rest of the world ←
16:10:58 <liza> Markus: This group was started just last week
Markus Gylling: This group was started just last week ←
16:11:13 <liza> Markus: How do we expect your community group and this industry group to collaborate?
Markus Gylling: How do we expect your community group and this interest group to collaborate? ←
16:11:21 <liza> s/industry/interest/
16:11:35 <liza> Markus: Do you expect to gather requirements that are specific to China?
Markus Gylling: Do you expect to gather requirements that are specific to China? ←
16:11:48 <liza> Xiaoqian: Next few months we will focus on information-sharing
Xiaoqian (W3C): Next few months we will focus on information-sharing ←
16:12:06 <liza> Xiaoqian: We have most of the major producers in China now, but need more
Xiaoqian (W3C): We have most of the major producers in China now, but need more ←
16:12:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:12:52 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:12:59 <liza> Xiaoqian: I would like to help using the community group to add to any specifications
Xiaoqian (W3C): I would like to help using the community group to add to any specifications ←
16:13:24 <liza> Ivan: Discussions in that community group are in Chinese
Ivan Herman: Discussions in that community group are in Chinese ←
16:13:48 <liza> Ivan: A few weeks ago a team member named Kenny has joined that group
Ivan Herman: A few weeks ago a team member named Kenny has joined that group ←
16:13:59 <liza> Ivan: So we have a person who will be on both groups
Ivan Herman: So we have a person who will be on both groups ←
16:14:14 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:14:39 <liza> Bill_Kasdorf: Is your focus on books or other publications?
Bill Kasdorf: Is your focus on books or other publications? ←
16:15:03 <liza> Xiaoqian: Focus is on EPUB, most of our members are from the IT industry
Xiaoqian (W3C): Focus is on EPUB, most of our members are from the IT industry ←
16:16:13 <liza> Xiaoqian: Don't see much interest in journals/magazines yet
Xiaoqian (W3C): Don't see much interest in journals/magazines yet ←
16:16:56 <liza> Markus: Next, this week's focus theme
Markus Gylling: Next, this week's focus theme ←
16:17:06 <ivan> Topic: content adaption task force
16:17:34 <liza> Markus: This task force's name is a little confusing, so let's go back to the original intent of the task force
Markus Gylling: This task force's name is a little confusing, so let's go back to the original intent of the task force ←
16:18:06 <liza> Markus: In digital publishing, where the open web platform is used in one way or another, the ecosystem has applied "extensions" to the platform in order to achieve some interaction or behavioral goal
Markus Gylling: In digital publishing, where the open web platform is used in one way or another, the ecosystem has applied "extensions" to the platform in order to achieve some interaction or behavioral goal ←
16:18:31 <liza> Markus: One of the primary tasks of this IG is identify "problems" in the OWP, and this task force is therefore important to our mission
Markus Gylling: One of the primary tasks of this IG is identify "problems" in the OWP, and this task force is therefore important to our mission ←
16:18:51 <liza> Markus: There are things that digital publishing needs to do but cannot without extensions, which may be declarative or scripted
Markus Gylling: There are things that digital publishing needs to do but cannot without extensions, which may be declarative or scripted ←
16:19:09 <liza> Markus: One of the goals then is to identify what extensions are in use today
Markus Gylling: One of the goals then is to identify what extensions are in use today ←
16:19:31 <liza> Tzviya: Agree that's how it started out, got a little fuzzy but we're bringing it back to that intent
Tzviya Siegman: Agree that's how it started out, got a little fuzzy but we're bringing it back to that intent ←
16:19:54 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Behavioral_UC6#Behavioral_6
Tzviya Siegman: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Behavioral_UC6#Behavioral_6 ←
16:19:55 <liza> Tzviya: Let's start with one of the existing use cases that's a little less familiar to the group
Tzviya Siegman: Let's start with one of the existing use cases that's a little less familiar to the group ←
16:20:49 <liza> Tzviya: Scroll direction, which can be done with CSS but is difficult (if at all). The goal is to allow the publisher to override the scroll direction that is the default for the language/script
Tzviya Siegman: Scroll direction, which can be done with CSS but is difficult (if at all). The goal is to allow the publisher to override the scroll direction that is the default for the language/script ←
16:21:30 <liza> Tzviya: I've seen this documented by one particular retailer. Has anyone seen this elsewhere?
Tzviya Siegman: I've seen this documented by one particular retailer. Has anyone seen this elsewhere? ←
16:21:46 <liza> Markus: I'm confused by whether this is the controlled by the publisher or the user/reader
Markus Gylling: I'm confused by whether this is the controlled by the publisher or the user/reader ←
16:21:55 <liza> Tzviya: Probably both?
Tzviya Siegman: Probably both? ←
16:22:17 <liza> brady_duga: Maybe the intent was for the publisher to do one thing and the reader to override that?
Brady Duga: Maybe the intent was for the publisher to do one thing and the reader to override that? ←
16:22:31 <liza> Tzviya: Need to go back to the source to clarify
Tzviya Siegman: Need to go back to the source to clarify ←
16:22:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:23:05 <liza> brady_duga: I'm confused by why you'd change the scroll direction independent of the layout
Brady Duga: I'm confused by why you'd change the scroll direction independent of the layout ←
16:23:34 <Bert> q+ to ask if this is about flipping pages to the right vs down, rather than the scroll bar?
Bert Bos: q+ to ask if this is about flipping pages to the right vs down, rather than the scroll bar? ←
16:23:43 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:24:22 <liza> Bill_Kasdorf: Seems like 2 potential layers of override: publisher overrides reading system, user needs to override publisher?
Bill Kasdorf: Seems like 2 potential layers of override: publisher overrides reading system, user needs to override publisher? ←
16:24:30 <liza> Tzviya: Let's focus on the publisher use case
Tzviya Siegman: Let's focus on the publisher use case ←
16:24:36 <mgylling> ack Bert
Markus Gylling: ack Bert ←
16:24:36 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to ask if this is about flipping pages to the right vs down, rather than the scroll bar?
Zakim IRC Bot: Bert, you wanted to ask if this is about flipping pages to the right vs down, rather than the scroll bar? ←
16:25:22 <liza> Bert: Depending on how the scrolling is laid out, it affects how the text is divided into columns
Bert Bos: Depending on how the scrolling is laid out, it affects how the text is divided into columns ←
16:25:35 <liza> Bert: Is this related to the direction in which the pages scroll?
Bert Bos: Is this related to the direction in which the pages scroll? ←
16:25:57 <liza> Bert: RL/LR, or up-down (like a flip chart)
Bert Bos: RL/LR, or up-down (like a flip chart) ←
16:26:23 <liza> Tzviya: Maybe should've taken a different use case :)
Tzviya Siegman: Maybe should've taken a different use case :) ←
16:26:44 <liza> Tzviya: The goal here was to provide an example of a _type_ of UC we are working on (rather than the specifics of this one)
Tzviya Siegman: The goal here was to provide an example of a _type_ of UC we are working on (rather than the specifics of this one) ←
16:26:52 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Behavioral_UC7#Behavioral_7
Markus Gylling: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Behavioral_UC7#Behavioral_7 ←
16:27:17 <liza> Markus: UC7 is also from a retailer
Markus Gylling: UC7 is also from a retailer ←
16:27:37 <liza> Tzviya: I have seen this in more than one retailer's documentation
Tzviya Siegman: I have seen this in more than one retailer's documentation ←
16:27:52 <liza> Tzviya: A single soundtrack loops without interruption throughout the publication
Tzviya Siegman: A single soundtrack loops without interruption throughout the publication ←
16:28:26 <liza> Tzviya: This illustrates the kind of 'behavior' we're trying to capture. Some kind of markup or attribute within the file causes a _behavior_
Tzviya Siegman: This illustrates the kind of 'behavior' we're trying to capture. Some kind of markup or attribute within the file causes a _behavior_ ←
16:29:03 <liza> Tzviya: We want to see that a given behavior is common across platform, and not otherwise expressible in existing standards
Tzviya Siegman: We want to see that a given behavior is common across platform, and not otherwise expressible in existing standards ←
16:29:15 <liza> Ivan: Probably no way to express the soundtrack UC in CSS
Ivan Herman: Probably no way to express the soundtrack UC in CSS ←
16:29:42 <liza> Tzviya: Next steps: more categories of use cases where we see behaviors like this illustrated
Tzviya Siegman: Next steps: more categories of use cases where we see behaviors like this illustrated ←
16:30:01 <liza> Tzviya: I would like to hear from the group what other categories of behaviors exist
Tzviya Siegman: I would like to hear from the group what other categories of behaviors exist ←
16:30:19 <liza> Tzviya: I'm not at all familiar with how these cases are being used outside my own work
Tzviya Siegman: I'm not at all familiar with how these cases are being used outside my own work ←
16:30:29 <JeanK> q+
Jean Kaplansky: q+ ←
16:30:50 <liza> Markus: We know that multiple vendors support this, but we don't know how widely used the feature is by publishers
Markus Gylling: We know that multiple vendors support this, but we don't know how widely used the feature is by publishers ←
16:31:42 <liza> ???: There is only vendor that currently supports this with fixed layout (in children's books mostly)
???: There is only vendor that currently supports this with fixed layout (in children's books mostly) ←
16:32:06 <astearns> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-video-element.html#audio has a loop attribute
Alan Stearns: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-video-element.html#audio has a loop attribute ←
16:32:31 <liza> Markus: How do we get a group who can help you progress in collecting new categories
Markus Gylling: How do we get a group who can help you progress in collecting new categories ←
16:32:52 <liza> Tzviya: I encourage people to post UCs to the wiki/list as I'll be absent for a few weeks
Tzviya Siegman: I encourage people to post UCs to the wiki/list as I'll be absent for a few weeks ←
16:32:56 <JeanK> Liza - the ??? was Jean K. Sorry...
Jean Kaplansky: Liza - the ??? was Jean K. Sorry... ←
16:33:11 <liza> Thanks Jean, thought it was probably you
Thanks Jean, thought it was probably you ←
16:33:23 <liza> Ivan: Nagging on the mailing list ++
Ivan Herman: Nagging on the mailing list ++ ←
16:33:26 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:33:40 <liza> Markus: I'm thinking about dictionaries and glossaries as well
Markus Gylling: I'm thinking about dictionaries and glossaries as well ←
16:34:10 <liza> Tzviya: Other examples that aren't yet documented: being able to purchase a dictionary and incorporate it into a book
Tzviya Siegman: Other examples that aren't yet documented: being able to purchase a dictionary and incorporate it into a book ←
16:34:16 <mgylling> astearns: loop yes, but not over multiple documents, and also the dedicated identification of "background track" means that the reading system can provide dedicated UI (in the menu, not in content view) to turn the darn thing off
Alan Stearns: loop yes, but not over multiple documents, and also the dedicated identification of "background track" means that the reading system can provide dedicated UI (in the menu, not in content view) to turn the darn thing off [ Scribe Assist by Markus Gylling ] ←
16:34:23 <liza> Tzviya: Section in EPUB spec about incorporating indexes
Tzviya Siegman: Section in EPUB spec about incorporating indexes ←
16:34:33 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Behavioral_UC#Behavioral_1
Tzviya Siegman: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Behavioral_UC#Behavioral_1 ←
16:35:13 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:35:28 <mgylling> ack JeanK
Markus Gylling: ack JeanK ←
16:35:45 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:36:11 <liza> Ivan: Do want to talk about how these examples would be expressed as attributes?
Ivan Herman: Do want to talk about how these examples would be expressed as attributes? ←
16:36:19 <liza> Tzviya: Indeed, next item on the agenda
Tzviya Siegman: Indeed, next item on the agenda ←
16:37:30 <liza> Tzviya: New name: 'Behavior Refinements'?
Tzviya Siegman: New name: 'Behavior Refinements'? ←
16:37:39 <liza> Ivan: What about 'Behavioral Extensions'?
Ivan Herman: What about 'Behavioral Extensions'? ←
16:37:49 <liza> Tzviya: Too overloaded?
Tzviya Siegman: Too overloaded? ←
16:38:06 <liza> brady_duga: They're equally confusing to me
Brady Duga: They're equally confusing to me ←
16:38:37 <liza> brady_duga: 3 parties involved: author/publisher, reading system, and user: behavior all may be different
Brady Duga: 3 parties involved: author/publisher, reading system, and user: behavior all may be different ←
16:38:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> How about "additional behaviors"?
Bill Kasdorf: How about "additional behaviors"? ←
16:39:09 <liza> brady_duga: What is the interaction among all these parties that might want to change e.g. scroll direction of the publication. This is the group that's dealing with the intersection of all those parties
Brady Duga: What is the interaction among all these parties that might want to change e.g. scroll direction of the publication. This is the group that's dealing with the intersection of all those parties ←
16:39:13 <JeanK> not really additional... More like conflicting behaviors.
Jean Kaplansky: not really additional... More like conflicting behaviors. ←
16:39:16 <liza> Markus: Yes, but this isn't about _styling_ behaviors
Markus Gylling: Yes, but this isn't about _styling_ behaviors ←
16:39:51 <liza> brady_duga: Problem for reading systems where we want to be able to provide the user with alternate fonts: body font (which may be meaningful or not), RS font default, user font preference
Brady Duga: Problem for reading systems where we want to be able to provide the user with alternate fonts: body font (which may be meaningful or not), RS font default, user font preference ←
16:40:16 <liza> brady_duga: It's very difficult to provide styling overrides in a sensible way with current technologies
Brady Duga: It's very difficult to provide styling overrides in a sensible way with current technologies ←
16:40:20 <JeanK> OH!!! "UI specific behavioral layers"
Jean Kaplansky: OH!!! "UI specific behavioral layers" ←
16:40:36 <liza> brady_duga: Does this belong in this taskforce, or a styling one?
Brady Duga: Does this belong in this taskforce, or a styling one? ←
16:40:47 <azaroth> q+
Robert Sanderson: q+ ←
16:40:49 <liza> Tzviya: More styling, doesn't affect the behavior of the publication
Tzviya Siegman: More styling, doesn't affect the behavior of the publication ←
16:41:09 <liza> brady_duga: Argument for behavioral taskforce: it's a negotiation between the user and content about how the content will be displayed
Brady Duga: Argument for behavioral taskforce: it's a negotiation between the user and content about how the content will be displayed ←
16:41:27 <JeanK> q+
Jean Kaplansky: q+ ←
16:41:35 <liza> brady_duga: Styling & Layout is about what's missing from styling support
Brady Duga: Styling & Layout is about what's missing from styling support ←
16:41:46 <liza> brady_duga: This UC feels more about behavioral negotiation
Brady Duga: This UC feels more about behavioral negotiation ←
16:42:05 <liza> Tzviya: This borders on the Pearson EDUPUB distinctions about classes
Tzviya Siegman: This borders on the Pearson EDUPUB distinctions about classes ←
16:42:46 <liza> Tzviya: EDUPUB profile for EPUB has 3 layers of classes; we've talked about applying @epub-type to some of these layers
Tzviya Siegman: EDUPUB profile for EPUB has 3 layers of classes; we've talked about applying @epub-type to some of these layers ←
16:43:19 <liza> Tzviya: 'Literal' classes are author intent. If a 'letter' in a publication has the address right-aligned, this cannot be overriden
Tzviya Siegman: 'Literal' classes are author intent. If a 'letter' in a publication has the address right-aligned, this cannot be overriden ←
16:43:32 <mgylling> ack azaroth
Markus Gylling: ack azaroth ←
16:43:32 <liza> Markus: So where do we want to put negotiation-related issues
Markus Gylling: So where do we want to put negotiation-related issues ←
16:43:54 <liza> azaroth: I don't see how the background sound isn't just also styling?
Robert Sanderson: I don't see how the background sound isn't just also styling? ←
16:44:09 <liza> azaroth: The user doesn't interact with the audio
Robert Sanderson: The user doesn't interact with the audio ←
16:44:12 <liza> (except to turn it off)
(except to turn it off) ←
16:44:19 <liza> (because omg)
(because omg) ←
16:44:27 <azaroth> (+1!)
Robert Sanderson: (+1!) ←
16:44:44 <liza> Markus: The reading system would have a behavior to allow the user to interact with this background audio
Markus Gylling: The reading system would have a behavior to allow the user to interact with this background audio ←
16:45:00 <liza> Markus: "Do you want to turn this crap off? [Yes / Hell Yes]"
Markus Gylling: "Do you want to turn this crap off? [Yes / Hell Yes]" ←
16:45:30 <liza> Markus: I agree that the distinction is murky
Markus Gylling: I agree that the distinction is murky ←
16:45:46 <liza> Tzviya: What is the definition of "behavior" vs. "style"?
Tzviya Siegman: What is the definition of "behavior" vs. "style"? ←
16:46:30 <liza> brady_duga: My view: "style" is about allowing an author to make the content look good. Doesn't involve the user. Behavioral adaptive content is what happens when the _user_ wants to change the styling
Brady Duga: My view: "style" is about allowing an author to make the content look good. Doesn't involve the user. Behavioral adaptive content is what happens when the _user_ wants to change the styling ←
16:47:31 <liza> Markus: Looking at existing UCs, indexes etc. are semantic enrichments from the POV of the publisher; different from your definition?
Markus Gylling: Looking at existing UCs, indexes etc. are semantic enrichments from the POV of the publisher; different from your definition? ←
16:48:04 <liza> brady_duga: There might be some user interactions between glossaries/dictionaries that would be covered here
Brady Duga: There might be some user interactions between glossaries/dictionaries that would be covered here ←
16:48:19 <azaroth> q+ to suggest Perhaps instead of having use cases that we can't fulfill currently, start at zero with assigning *existing* functionality into the topic or not, so we get a better idea of it without being distracted by the complex UCs
Robert Sanderson: q+ to suggest Perhaps instead of having use cases that we can't fulfill currently, start at zero with assigning *existing* functionality into the topic or not, so we get a better idea of it without being distracted by the complex UCs ←
16:48:26 <liza> Tzviya: e.g. tapping on an index term and displaying that term would go here?
Tzviya Siegman: e.g. tapping on an index term and displaying that term would go here? ←
16:48:35 <liza> brady_duga: Yes, because the user is interacting with the content
Brady Duga: Yes, because the user is interacting with the content ←
16:48:45 <liza> Markus: Works with the notes UC very well
Markus Gylling: Works with the notes UC very well ←
16:49:29 <liza> Markus: To date, reading systems do only system-wide dictionaries if any
Markus Gylling: To date, reading systems do only system-wide dictionaries if any ←
16:49:50 <liza> Markus: With additional markup the user can decide which dictionaries to add
Markus Gylling: With additional markup the user can decide which dictionaries to add ←
16:49:50 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:49:56 <ivan> ack JeanK
Ivan Herman: ack JeanK ←
16:49:57 <mgylling> ack JeanK
Markus Gylling: ack JeanK ←
16:50:23 <liza> JeanK: Behavioral or UI "layers": some things we can include in the markup or CSS as a trigger to hang behavior on
Jean Kaplansky: Behavioral or UI "layers": some things we can include in the markup or CSS as a trigger to hang behavior on ←
16:50:44 <liza> JeanK: I don't see turning on or off content or modifying display as 'styling'
Jean Kaplansky: I don't see turning on or off content or modifying display as 'styling' ←
16:51:05 <liza> JeanK: These are features that can be continually overridden all the way back to the content level
Jean Kaplansky: These are features that can be continually overridden all the way back to the content level ←
16:51:28 <liza> JeanK: Analogous to the CSS cascade; overrides change the state of the publication
Jean Kaplansky: Analogous to the CSS cascade; overrides change the state of the publication ←
16:51:34 <mgylling> ack azaroth
Markus Gylling: ack azaroth ←
16:51:34 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to suggest Perhaps instead of having use cases that we can't fulfill currently, start at zero with assigning *existing* functionality into the topic or not, so
Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, you wanted to suggest Perhaps instead of having use cases that we can't fulfill currently, start at zero with assigning *existing* functionality into the topic or not, so ←
16:51:37 <liza> Tzviya: Like progressive enhancement?
Tzviya Siegman: Like progressive enhancement? ←
16:51:38 <Zakim> ... we get a better idea of it without being distracted by the complex UCs
Zakim IRC Bot: ... we get a better idea of it without being distracted by the complex UCs ←
16:51:56 <liza> brady_duga: Do you mean this should exclude things that should involve styling, or is bigger than styling?
Brady Duga: Do you mean this should exclude things that should involve styling, or is bigger than styling? ←
16:52:22 <liza> JeanK: user-modified font sizes, etc. become a UI feature; the publisher doesn't have control over that behavior
Jean Kaplansky: user-modified font sizes, etc. become a UI feature; the publisher doesn't have control over that behavior ←
16:52:56 <liza> azaroth: Be nice to pick existing functionality (rather than new complicated use cases) to get a better idea of what's in or out
Robert Sanderson: Be nice to pick existing functionality (rather than new complicated use cases) to get a better idea of what's in or out ←
16:53:19 <liza> azaroth: Without worrying about difficult things like scroll direction or audio/video, which have other considerations like UI elements to control those
Robert Sanderson: Without worrying about difficult things like scroll direction or audio/video, which have other considerations like UI elements to control those ←
16:54:04 <liza> JeanK: +1, also add: accessibility features that are also a part of UIs, like which voice to use
Jean Kaplansky: +1, also add: accessibility features that are also a part of UIs, like which voice to use ←
16:54:28 <Zakim> -Xiaoqian
Zakim IRC Bot: -Xiaoqian ←
16:54:35 <liza> Markus: If we go with Brady's definition of the task force about user negotiation, then accessibility plays a role
Markus Gylling: If we go with Brady's definition of the task force about user negotiation, then accessibility plays a role ←
16:54:49 <liza> Markus: Accessibility group is actually 'Accessibility & Personalization', so there's overlap
Markus Gylling: Accessibility group is actually 'Accessibility & Personalization', so there's overlap ←
16:55:57 <liza> Tzviya: 'User input' is critical to this behavior category, even though that's not where we started
Tzviya Siegman: 'User input' is critical to this behavior category, even though that's not where we started ←
16:56:12 <liza> Markus: Yes, we tried to start with extensions in the wild today, regardless of whether they were user-modifiable
Markus Gylling: Yes, we tried to start with extensions in the wild today, regardless of whether they were user-modifiable ←
16:56:23 <Zakim> -ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ivan ←
16:56:28 <liza> Ivan: Indexes do not seem to fall into this
Ivan Herman: Indexes do not seem to fall into this ←
16:56:34 <liza> Markus: Agreed
Markus Gylling: Agreed ←
16:56:49 <liza> Tzviya: We need to gather examples of user input, but we don't need to be limited to that
Tzviya Siegman: We need to gather examples of user input, but we don't need to be limited to that ←
16:57:05 <ivan> zakim, code?
Ivan Herman: zakim, code? ←
16:57:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan ←
16:57:09 <liza> brady_duga: It's cases where the user input & the original authorship might be in conflict and need to be negotiated
Brady Duga: It's cases where the user input & the original authorship might be in conflict and need to be negotiated ←
16:57:26 <Zakim> +ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan ←
16:57:46 <liza> Tzviya: I'm comfortable with that as long as everyone else is
Tzviya Siegman: I'm comfortable with that as long as everyone else is ←
16:58:25 <liza> Markus: We've recognized that the difference between styling and behavior is fuzzy, it's OK if it's not a clear distinction
Markus Gylling: We've recognized that the difference between styling and behavior is fuzzy, it's OK if it's not a clear distinction ←
16:58:39 <liza> Ivan: We should postpone @epub-type discussion for more time later
Ivan Herman: We should postpone @epub-type discussion for more time later ←
16:58:53 <liza> Markus: We could do that on the list this week
Markus Gylling: We could do that on the list this week ←
16:59:03 <liza> Tzviya: NAME???
Tzviya Siegman: NAME??? ←
16:59:14 <liza> Markus: 'Behavioral Extensions'
Markus Gylling: 'Behavioral Extensions' ←
16:59:44 <liza> Tzviya: brady_duga is on the hook to add more use cases
Tzviya Siegman: brady_duga is on the hook to add more use cases ←
16:59:56 <liza> JeanK: "Behavioral UI Extensions?"
Jean Kaplansky: "Behavioral UI Extensions?" ←
17:00:17 <liza> Ivan: Cool URLs don't change
Ivan Herman: Cool URLs don't change ←
17:00:40 <liza> Markus: Next Monday's agenda?
Markus Gylling: Next Monday's agenda? ←
17:01:25 <liza> Markus: Bill_Kasdorf ready for next week?
Markus Gylling: Bill_Kasdorf ready for next week? ←
17:01:59 <liza> Bill_Kasdorf: Postpone because Ivan not available
Bill Kasdorf: Postpone because Ivan not available ←
17:02:15 <liza> Markus: Liza and I will decide by fiat
Markus Gylling: Liza and I will decide by fiat ←
17:02:15 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
17:02:25 <Zakim> -madi
Zakim IRC Bot: -madi ←
17:02:26 <Zakim> -azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth ←
17:02:28 <Zakim> -liza
Zakim IRC Bot: -liza ←
17:02:29 <Zakim> -duga
Zakim IRC Bot: -duga ←
17:02:30 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
17:02:30 <Zakim> -ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ivan ←
17:02:30 <Zakim> -JeanKaplansky
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeanKaplansky ←
17:02:30 <Zakim> -tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -tzviya ←
17:02:32 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
17:02:35 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
17:02:37 <Zakim> -Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert ←
17:02:40 <Zakim> -tmichel
Zakim IRC Bot: -tmichel ←
17:02:41 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended ←
17:02:41 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.201.387.aaaa, tzviya, +1.617.301.aabb, liza, Xiaoqian, [IPcaller], +1.734.904.aacc, +1.505.603.aadd, ivan, Stearns, mgylling, azaroth, tmichel, Bill_Kasdorf,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.201.387.aaaa, tzviya, +1.617.301.aabb, liza, Xiaoqian, [IPcaller], +1.734.904.aacc, +1.505.603.aadd, ivan, Stearns, mgylling, azaroth, tmichel, Bill_Kasdorf, ←
17:02:41 <Zakim> ... Bert, JeanKaplansky, madi, duga
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Bert, JeanKaplansky, madi, duga ←