Audio Working Group Teleconference -- 17 Oct 2013

<trackbot> Date: 17 October 2013

<olivier> Scribe: chrislowis

<jernoble> J)

<jernoble> :)

olivier: let's get started

review of action items

<olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda

<olivier> ACTION-78

<trackbot> ACTION-78 -- Doug Schepers to Make sure web platform docs has up to date doc on web audio -- due 2013-10-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/78

olivier: Action 78 - Doug what's the status of that?

<olivier> ACTION-79

<trackbot> ACTION-79 -- Paul Adenot to Change editors names and editor's draft link in web-audio draft -- due 2013-10-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/79

shepazu: leave it open for now, I've looked at it but still some more to do.

<olivier> close ACTION-79

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-79.

olivier: I think that has been done by me, cwilso and padenot.
... on a sub note this was part of the preparation for publishing a new working draft
... well done to the group for publishing! It's our first since Dec 2012, but we did it.

<olivier> ACTION-66

<trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Chris Lowis to Look into what dezippering in webkit was based on -- due 2013-10-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/66

olivier: and we should be faster/ought to be faster from now thanks to padenot's refactoring.

<olivier> ACTION-66 due in 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set ACTION-66 Look into what dezippering in webkit was based on due date to 2013-10-31.

<padenot> (the refactoring in question: http://padenot.github.io/web-audio-api/, basically porting the spec to ReSpec)

<olivier> ACTION-69 due in 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set ACTION-69 Tidy up "how to contribute" section in wiki due date to 2013-10-31.

<olivier> action-70 due in 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-70 Look into migrating all webaudio issues from bugzilla to github due date to 2013-10-31.

spec status

<olivier> http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/

olivier: we have a new draft of web audio as I mentioned, I just wanted to gve the editors a chance to tell us where things are and if they need help.

padenot: right now, I've been spending time refactoring the spec, and it is much easier to make changes now.
... we have a tool to generate webidl references, toc and so on.
... I've started looking at races in the api and I'll be sending an email out to see how to fix that.
... and the next big change is to integrate roc's api to fix the data race.

olivier: I saw today that chrislowis opened a PR today, is that an ok way of working padenot, or better after you've done the refactoring.

padenot: it should be pretty easy to refactor, so no problem. And issuing a PR when there's a non-trivial change is good practice.

cwilso: it would be better to set up your hosted version to use pages so that changes can be seen without having to read through HTML.
... I also wanted to get the WebMIDI spec updated so we can get commentary on it.

olivier: there's a block on changes around TPAC, so we should be mindful of that.

cwilso: I sent some changes to the list which should be the basis of the next public draft - did you get that?

olivier: Yes, it seems the mail was sent.

<olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0050.html

finding a new home for webaudio sections about to be removed - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0055.html

olivier: shepazu pointed out that there's some secitons in the spec that may have been useful originally, but don't belong now.

<olivier> http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#ExampleApplications

olivier: in particular section 16 ^^
... I'd quite like to remove the mention of specific games and so on.
... there's a link to a post about the game, but it doesn't give too much detail.
... I'm happy for the editors to remove it.

shepazu: I think removing most of it would be good, the mention of the studio set up for room effects was quite interesting and gave colour to the spec.

olivier: but perhaps would be better in a blog post?
... could you take the action to remove it at some point?
... the example application section and the photos in section 12.

cwilso: sure.

<olivier> ACTION: cwilso to remove webaudio section on example applications, photos from section on convolution, and salvage anything valuable - due in 4 weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-80 - Remove webaudio section on example applications, photos from section on convolution, and salvage anything valuable [on Chris Wilson - due 2013-11-14].

TAG feedback processing

olivier: chrislowis raised a few issues today that capture the TAG feedback.
... I wondered if we wanted to schedule a future call to address this feedback.
... people from the TAG have been in touch to say that they want the feedback to be more of a conversation.
... if there's no suggestion of how to do this, then we can put it on the agenda.

<olivier> chrislowis: wanted to contact the TAG and point to the issues

<olivier> ACTION: olivier to contact TAG, point them to TAG issues in github, continue conversation there [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-81 - Contact tag, point them to tag issues in github, continue conversation there [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-10-24].

cwilso: I think some of these issues have already been addressed, so we can just link the issues.

unprefixing / best practices

<olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/demo-list

<Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to suggest that we should definitely figure out the connect() returning the node issue prior to anyone shipping unprefixed.

olivier: does anyone know of any current effort looking at pushing "best practices" for web audio?

cwilso: there are probably one or two issues in the TAG feedback that might have compatibility issues that we may want to address before un-prefixing.

<padenot> cwilso: hopefully fixed

<olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/258?source=cc

<Zakim> jernoble, you wanted to ask about the "pause when disconnected" issue

cwilso: it would be a good thing to, for example, return the node from calls to connect() as that would be a really nice convenience, and if we are going to do it it doesn't make sense to ship implementations without it.

jernoble: if we are going to un-prefix, we should decide what to do when you disconnect a node, blink/webkit have a different implementation to mozilla.

cwilso: yep, we should sort that out too.

<olivier> related issue to the disconnect (?) https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/43?source=cc

<olivier> ACTION: olivier to check whether we are tracking issue for disconnect behaviour [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Check whether we are tracking issue for disconnect behaviour [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-10-24].

olivier: on the wider subject of education/best practices, anything else you know is happening? shepazu - any on your radar for web platform docs?

shepazu: I might be able to find someone to work on the docs.

mdjp: there's quite a lot of demos out there, would it be a good idea for the group to try and put together some best practices?

olivier: would anyone else like to work on docs around best practices, and secondly, how would we go about hosting/building this?

shepazu: I have found many examples of how to create an oscillator, but I haven't found many examples of how to work with the rest of the spec.
... I have found quite a lot of docs about scheduling and play back of pre-recorded sounds, and some on creating oscillators. But I looked for examples of using the panner node, and couldn't find any.

cwilso: There's some examples on HTML5 Rocks about the panner node, for example, but it's old and may not be up-to-date with changes to the spec.
... I don't have enough time to do this, and if I could come up with some tech writing help, I still may not be able to make a dent in it.
... I think having a set of how-to-do documents would be really helpful.
... something like "here's how to do chorus" would be good too.

joe: I think there's so many different ways to present this API that it's beyond one person to document it all.

cwilso: I agree, and I think we just need to help people level-up.

joe: thanks Joe.

shepazu: I think there's a set of people who want to use the API who don't know anything about audio, that's the audience I'd like to help.
... I've been reading a lot about different kinds of synthesis, for example, but how-to-get-started with audio, as well as how to use the API would give us a lot of bang for the buck,
... as I think the API has been designed for those coming with a digital audio background.

olivier: two things: I hear some consensus that we want to give good examples to people, but that we don't have time yet. But perhaps we could start an effort to collect good examples (and documentations) and point people towards that?
... can I have a volunteer to get started on that?

shepazu: if it's around web platform docs, I'm happy to get that started.

(http://www.webplatform.org/)

shepazu: would a good start be to take a survey of what's out there?

olivier: sounds like a good idea.
... if you're happy to get it started on webplatform docs, that would get us started.
... here's an action item:

<olivier> ACTION: shepazu to get started with a space on WPD to survey docs on good practice for webaudio [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - Get started with a space on wpd to survey docs on good practice for webaudio [on Doug Schepers - due 2013-10-24].

<olivier> action-83 due in 4 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-83 Get started with a space on wpd to survey docs on good practice for webaudio due date to 2013-11-14.

olivier: we're fairly stable at this time, which is good. But I'm not available on that date.
... it's also halloween so let's aim for 7th November.

shepazu: your assignment is to make spooky sounds!

<cwilso> http://cwilso.github.io/web-midi-api/

review webmidi changes

cwilso: now there's a map of inputs and outputs, which is a new change.
... e.g. http://cwilso.github.io/web-midi-api/#midioutputmap-interface
... section 13 gives some examples of using foreach http://cwilso.github.io/web-midi-api/#examples-of-web-midi-api-usage-in-javascript
... and you can also index them with a number, which is mildly discouraged [since they can come and go].
... I also inserted into the spec an example of a midi synth that uses web audio to show how the two can work together.
... it's a couple of hundred lines or so.

shepazu: do you think there's much more work to do on this spec?

cwilso: no, I don't think so. There's more pressure on me now to get this api out there, since blink will be disabling np-api support that will break my polyfill.
... there's some open issues. 3 are addressed by this proposal, 1 is a v2 issue, and one is a "won't fix for now" but we want to track it.
... we're going to start work on a windows implementation which might give us more clarity on that issue.

AOB

olivier: we're at the top of the hour, so let's adjourn. We'll meet in 3 weeks!

- DRAFT -

Audio Working Group Teleconference

17 Oct 2013

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