W3C

- DRAFT -

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

03 Oct 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, [IPcaller], Jim_Allan, +1.609.734.aaaa, Eric, [Microsoft], Kim_Patch
Regrets
Chair
jimallan, kellyford
Scribe
allanj

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 03 October 2013

<jeanne> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 03 October 2013

<scribe> scribe: allanj

open item 2

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/

anyone in UAWG or WCAG can join the TF

looking for facilitators, hopefully 2 of them

open item 1

question 1 3.3.2

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results

definition of documentation

gl: a little uncomfortable of not even addressing the question of whether or not the term covers materials not included with the product

jr: what are you guarding against. 3rd party stuff.

gl: materials doesn't ship with product, so its not part, and doesn't have to be accessible

jr: are you concerned about a11y of material on the web.

gl: 'on the web' was dropped, that is a concern

ja: 'electronically' covers on the web

gl: didn't interpret that way

<Jan> Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be distributed (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match the technical...

<Jan> ...level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser.

<Greg> I thought "electronically" meant as opposed to in print, and "distributed" was a verb instead of an adjective.

<Jan> Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match the...

<Jan> ...technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser.

<Jan> Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match...

<Jan> ...the technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser.

gl: should make sense without parenthetical.

<Greg> Documentation can be distributed with the product or separately (e.g. on the web).

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet retain meaning) definition of Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-893 - Update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet retain meaning) definition of documentation: any information that supports the use of a user agent. this information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,... [on Jeanne F Spellman - due

<trackbot> ... 2013-10-10].

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match the technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser.

js: "documentation for users should match the technical level of the feature." -- suggest that it be

"documentation for users should match the technical level of what the user wants to accomplish".

jr: hard to know what the user wants to do. more testable to base on feature (address bar, dialog box, etc)

kp: +1 to jr

question 2 intent of 3.3.2

gl: SC - described in interface, intent - self explanatory, comments most editorial except the self-documenting
... why are dev. docs not required...only recommended

jr: agree about self explanatory
... dev docs are a second order documentation. this is for the user and testable
... if it is a deep communication feature that the user doesnt see, how do we test it

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update the Intent of 3.3.2 with the comments from GL in the survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-894 - Update the intent of 3.3.2 with the comments from gl in the survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

question 3 3.3.2 proposal

resolution: proposal accepted

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to update 3.3.2 SC from survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-895 - Update 3.3.2 sc from survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

question 4 1.4 intent and examples

resolution: proposal for 1.4 accepted

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the appropriate SCs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-896 - Move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the appropriate scs [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

question 5 1.4.1 changes

there are suggested stem handles

discussion of construction of stem handles.

<KimPatch> Global Text Scale, Color, Font

<KimPatch> Text Scale, Color and Font

<KimPatch> Global Text Spacing and Style

<KimPatch> Configured and Reflowed Text Printing

<KimPatch> Text Style, Margins, Borders

<KimPatch> Global Fine Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation

js: global text is different than by element

<jeanne> Text, Scale, Color, Font Globally

<jeanne> Text, Scale, Color, Font, Globally

<jeanne> Text, Scale, Color, Font, by Element

gl: by element is by element type

from UA point of view

<KimPatch> Allow Text Scale, Color and Font to be Configured Globally

<KimPatch> Allow Text Scale, Color and Font to be Configured

<KimPatch> Allow Preserved Size Distinctions

<KimPatch> Allow Text Spacing and Style to be Configured Globally

<KimPatch> Allow Printing of Configured Text

<KimPatch> Allow Text Style and Margins to be Configured

<KimPatch> Allow Text Fine Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation to be Configured Globally

gl: stem should be short and simple

<jeanne> Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally)

<jeanne> Text Scale, Color, Font (by Element)

<KimPatch> Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally)

<KimPatch> Text Scale, Color and Font (by Element)

<KimPatch> Text Spacing and Style (Globally)

<KimPatch> Configured and Reflowed Text Printing

<KimPatch> Text Style, Margins, Borders (by Element)

<KimPatch> Fine Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally)

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of meeting of 3 October. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-897 - Update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of meeting of 3 october. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

q6 1.4.2 new

gl: use 'element type'

<Greg> (I don't really like making the stems even longer by adding Type, but it would be more accurate; if we can get away without that's good, for conciseness.)

jr: 'other elements' is untestable

kp: proposal- The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text elements including main text and headings

gl: ONLY for a limited set of types

jr: what might need its own text style.

js: this could be user style sheets for html, but needs to cover non-html documents (pdf)
... need a list -- form labels, table headers, headings, normal text

jr: form elements covered in highlighting

js: input elements - make the actual controls bigger

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to write an example of making input elements larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-898 - Write an example of making input elements larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add to 1.4.2 IER Resources to cross reference to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-899 - Add to 1.4.2 ier resources to cross reference to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

PDF will be a huge problem

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings, main text, table headings, and input fields.

gl: what happens for documents with no styles (per se)

jr: how is main text different from globally

js: agree

jr: is table heading to html centric

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings, table headings, and input fields.

<jeanne> it is also a problem for mobile browsers

js: issue for mobile browsers, no user style sheets

<Jan> Gere we say labels and headers and table headers are an example of headers...http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#sc_122

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add example to IER of 1.4.2 to include table headers as a type of heading [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-900 - Add example to ier of 1.4.2 to include table headers as a type of heading [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings and input fields.

The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headers and input fields.

resolution: 1.4.2 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings, table headings, and input fields.

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 October [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-901 - Add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 october [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

q7 1.4.3 new

need to be able to turn stuff off (text style and justification)

<Greg> I would require the ability to turn bold on and off, but only need to turn off italics and underline.

1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text: (Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification - (left, right, full)

discussion of how hard to do these things...for developer and user

gl: would not fail a UA for not setting all text underlined

<Jan> brb

gl: getting rid of all formatting, would turn everything off. but some users may have a need to make everything bols

ja; would be useful to turn italic into bold

gl: this is global not just for italic items.

<KimPatch> Text style (underline off, italic off; bold on/off)

agree we need units

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to follow up with proposal on text customization to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-902 - Follow up with proposal on text customization to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

<jeanne> Justification - undo full justification

<Greg> I don't want to add a requirement to support justification options if the original request was just to allow avoiding them.

<Greg> I think the minimum is turning off full justification, and turning on the default justification for the language direction (left justification for left-to-right languages, etc.).

1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification (undo full justification)

1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification (turn off full justification)

js: remove left, right, full from AAA (1.4.6) and add it here

kp: +1

ja: +1

<jeanne> That will be simpler and easier than requiring requiring the default justification for the language

js: there is no not-full justification.
... left or right justification removes centering

<Greg> I can live with the proposal to require left/right/full justification, although it's not my preference because I don't know of any accessibility benefit of requiring turning ON full justification or right justification in left-to-right languages.

Resolution: 1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to accept the proposal, adding the unit of measure and changing Justification to justification (left, right, full) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action11]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-903 - Accept the proposal, adding the unit of measure and changing justification to justification (left, right, full) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification (left, right, full)

rrsagent: make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to accept the proposal, adding the unit of measure and changing Justification to justification (left, right, full) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add example to IER of 1.4.2 to include table headers as a type of heading [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 October [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add to 1.4.2 IER Resources to cross reference to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to follow up with proposal on text customization to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the appropriate SCs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update 3.3.2 SC from survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet retain meaning) definition of Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of meeting of 3 October. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update the Intent of 3.3.2 with the comments from GL in the survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to write an example of making input elements larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action06]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-10-03 18:44:29 $

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Found Scribe: allanj
Inferring ScribeNick: allanj
Default Present: Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, [IPcaller], Jim_Allan, +1.609.734.aaaa, Eric, [Microsoft], Kim_Patch
Present: Jeanne Greg_Lowney [IPcaller] Jim_Allan +1.609.734.aaaa Eric [Microsoft] Kim_Patch
Found Date: 03 Oct 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: jeanne

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