W3C

- DRAFT -

Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

26 Sep 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
nigel

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013

f2f at tpac

<tmichel> So far we have the following people registered at the TTML WG F2F

<tmichel> Registered as group participant:

<tmichel> Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org> (W3C Staff) : attending Monday

<tmichel> Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com> (Comcast Corporation) : attending Monday

<tmichel> Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> (Cox Communications, Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday

<tmichel> Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch> (European Broadcasting Union (EBU-UER)) : attending Monday

<tmichel> David Singer <singer@apple.com> (Apple, Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday

current list of topics is at: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac

<tmichel> Cyril Concolato <cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr> (INSTITUT TELECOM) : attending Monday

<tmichel> Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> (MovieLabs) : attending Monday, Friday

<tmichel> Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org> (W3C Staff) : attending Friday

<tmichel> So that is 7 people attending

<tmichel> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#TT

I'm likely to register too, assuming we can set goals etc.

sean: add to list: advanced animation and profiles (the latter already present)

tmichel: We should aim to have a functionally correct TTML 2 after the two days

sean: also a working plan for what to do re WebVTT

nigel: what about live TTML?

sean: could be a good opportunity depending on state of work that can be presented by EBU

nigel: should be able to present the use cases and potential solution areas

tmichel: how should we call this?

nigel: two topics. 1) Distribution of segmented TTML. 2) Contribution of live TTML, with handovers etc.

sean: can tmichel and nigel take this agenda forward?

tmichel: yes

nigel: yes

<scribe> scribeNick: nigel

scribeNick is nigel

issue-22?

<trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22

<tmichel> scribe:nigel

Issues

issue-22?

<trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22

sean: do we have the mechanics in the new mechanism to meet the 708 window fade-in and fade-out requirements?
... there are some effects that may not map from 708 to animation.
... Can we close this issue based on what we can achieve with the proposed solution?

mike: it's meaningless to get the effect without meeting 708.

sean: what properties do we need to add to meet all of the 708 effects?
... We need a note on this issue and re-open it.

reopen issue-22

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-22.

action mike to add additional notes to issue-22

<trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Add additional notes to issue-22 [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].

issue-23?

<trackbot> issue-23 -- intermediate animation of extent -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23

sean: not all of the window effect mechanics are present. Propose re-opening unless requirements are actually met.

mike: unaware of this as a 708 requirement
... windowOut doesn't map to animation of extent

plh: no recollection why this was raised (back in 2005!)

sean: close this, we'll get the effect anyway with smooth animation.

close issue-23

<trackbot> Closed issue-23.

issue-72?

<trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72

sean: the required properties don't seem to be present

mike: this needs to be solved with some kind of region property animation.

reopen issue-72

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-72.

action on sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation

<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

action sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation

<trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation [on Sean Hayes - due 2013-10-03].

issue-159?

<trackbot> issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script processing -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159

sean: this appears to meet my requirements. What about SMPTE's?

pal: will have to check. Each of the SMPTE requests were captured in separate tickets.

close issue-159

<trackbot> Closed issue-159.

issue-167?

<trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167

mike: this needs further review

sean: leave as pending review

issue-176

<trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin attributes on block elements -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176

sean: glenn has added an inline region element, so it can be defined locally and targets its parent element. This is analogous to <set> and is similar to adding the attributes.
... This solves the inheritance problem. It's a reasonable design however the problem is that existing practice has been that people have been doing the CPC proposal.
... We need further input from the industry to say if this is an acceptable solution.

mike: agrees with sean

nigel: does it permit animation of the extent and origin?

sean: yes with an animate element as a child of the region.
... this is a big change, so not closing at this point. This would be a good agenda item for the f2f to ensure that all the semantics work out.

issue-167?

<trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167

mike: not happy with current approach

reopen issue-167

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-167.

action mike to add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved issues.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved issues. [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].

issue-178?

<trackbot> issue-178 -- initial values and style set calculations are unclear, especially for transformable attributes -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178

sean: review further and return to this.

issue-183?

<trackbot> issue-183 -- semantics of using profile in a document -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183

close issue-183

<trackbot> Closed issue-183.

sean: further profiles issues will be created if needed

issue-206?

<trackbot> issue-206 -- Add ttp:profileCombination parameter -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206

sean: want to review further

pal: what is this in response to?

sean: we created this to capture some previous issues uncovered with SDP-US

pal: this adds complexity without rationale.

sean: propose leaving open until we've had the f2f session on profiles.

pal: I'm adding a note to request more background on this issue.
... on tpac page.

issue-225?

<trackbot> issue-225 -- tts:fontSize as percentage of container dimensions -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225

sean: not sure of reason for vmin and vmax

pal: agree, need to know the rationale.

nigel: agree too.

sean: I had the same problem as raised by nigel, need to know the unit space in which to do the comparison.
... we need clarity over meaning of vmin and vmax

reopen issue-225

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-225.

pal: will add a note for reason for vmin and vmax

issue-259?

<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

sean: glenn has added in a determination for closest.

issue-259?

<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

plh: vmin and vmax are dependent on the size of the root element, body. Percentages further down the tree are based on the size of the parent.
... It gives access to the original extent from anywhere in the tree.

sean: What if the pixels aren't logically square - does that make a difference in terms of the minimum/maximum choice?

plh: understanding is that it's a comparison of the number of pixels.

sean: That's what we are asking for clarification on. What is the real world value being compared and why is vmin and vmax needed?

pal: concerned this is done without resolving an incompatible issue in TTML1.
... Until we fix that we can't talk about pixels in any other context.
... The issue is the mapping of logical to physical pixels.

aob

next week

sean: face to face agenda

pal: plan to have an updated version of the text and image profiles based on recent DECE improvements that impacts on some of the TPAC issues,
... specifically more consistent rendering of fonts.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found ScribeNick: nigel
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Default Present: +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
Present: +44.154.558.aaaa pal nigel Sean tmichel +1.858.882.aabb mike mijordan Plh

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 26 Sep 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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