14:00:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:00:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-irc
14:00:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:00:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
14:00:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
14:00:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:00:38 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013
14:01:02 <nigel> nigel has joined #tt
14:01:34 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:01:50 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:01:56 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aaaa
14:01:58 <Zakim> +pal
14:02:04 <Zakim> +??P17
14:02:11 <nigel> zakim, ??P17 is me
14:02:11 <Zakim> +nigel; got it
14:02:23 <Sean> zakim, aaaa is me
14:02:24 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
14:03:01 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #tt
14:03:26 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:03:42 <Zakim> +??P20
14:04:00 <tmichel> zakim, ??P20 is tmichel
14:04:00 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
14:04:24 <Zakim> + +1.858.882.aabb
14:04:41 <mike> zakim, i am aabb
14:04:41 <Zakim> +mike; got it
14:08:11 <mijordan> mijordan has joined #tt
14:09:03 <Zakim> +[Adobe]
14:09:27 <mijordan> Zakim, mijordan is Adobe
14:09:27 <Zakim> sorry, mijordan, I do not recognize a party named 'mijordan'
14:09:42 <mijordan> Zakim, Adobe is mijordan
14:09:42 <Zakim> +mijordan; got it
14:11:48 <nigel> topic: f2f at tpac
14:11:56 <tmichel> So far we have the following people registered at the TTML WG F2F
14:11:57 <tmichel> Registered as group participant:
14:11:57 <tmichel>     Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org> (W3C Staff) : attending Monday
14:11:57 <tmichel>     Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com> (Comcast Corporation) : attending Monday
14:11:57 <tmichel>     Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> (Cox Communications, Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday
14:11:58 <tmichel>     Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch> (European Broadcasting Union (EBU-UER)) : attending Monday
14:11:59 <tmichel>     David Singer <singer@apple.com> (Apple, Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday
14:12:02 <nigel> current list of topics is at: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac
14:12:03 <tmichel>     Cyril Concolato <cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr> (INSTITUT TELECOM) : attending Monday
14:12:05 <tmichel>     Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> (MovieLabs) : attending Monday, Friday
14:12:07 <tmichel>     Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org> (W3C Staff) : attending Friday
14:12:34 <tmichel> So that is 7 people attending
14:12:35 <tmichel> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#TT
14:12:50 <nigel> I'm likely to register too, assuming we can set goals etc.
14:13:58 <nigel> sean: add to list: advanced animation and profiles (the latter already present)
14:15:03 <nigel> tmichel: We should aim to have a functionally correct TTML 2 after the two days
14:15:14 <nigel> sean: also a working plan for what to do re WebVTT
14:16:55 <nigel> nigel: what about live TTML?
14:17:31 <nigel> sean: could be a good opportunity depending on state of work that can be presented by EBU
14:18:16 <nigel> nigel: should be able to present the use cases and potential solution areas
14:19:43 <nigel> tmichel: how should we call this?
14:20:07 <plh> plh has joined #tt
14:20:13 <nigel> nigel: two topics. 1) Distribution of segmented TTML. 2) Contribution of live TTML, with handovers etc.
14:20:23 <Zakim> +Plh
14:20:53 <nigel> sean: can tmichel and nigel take this agenda forward?
14:20:57 <nigel> tmichel: yes
14:21:01 <nigel> nigel: yes
14:21:11 <nigel> scribeNick: nigel
14:21:44 <nigel> scribeNick is nigel
14:22:18 <nigel> issue-22?
14:22:18 <trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review
14:22:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
14:22:21 <tmichel> scribe:nigel
14:22:54 <nigel> topic: Issues
14:22:58 <nigel> issue-22?
14:22:58 <trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review
14:22:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
14:23:28 <nigel> sean: do we have the mechanics in the new mechanism to meet the 708 window fade-in and fade-out requirements?
14:23:45 <nigel> ... there are some effects that may not map from 708 to animation.
14:23:59 <nigel> ... Can we close this issue based on what we can achieve with the proposed solution?
14:24:17 <nigel> mike: it's meaningless to get the effect without meeting 708.
14:25:09 <nigel> sean: what properties do we need to add to meet all of the 708 effects?
14:25:20 <nigel> ... We need a note on this issue and re-open it.
14:25:56 <nigel> reopen issue-22
14:25:56 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-22.
14:26:07 <nigel> action mike to add additional notes to issue-22
14:26:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Add additional notes to issue-22 [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].
14:26:17 <nigel> issue-23?
14:26:17 <trackbot> issue-23 -- intermediate animation of extent -- pending review
14:26:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23
14:27:10 <nigel> sean: not all of the window effect mechanics are present. Propose re-opening unless requirements are actually met.
14:27:37 <nigel> mike: unaware of this as a 708 requirement
14:27:45 <Zakim> -tmichel
14:28:05 <nigel> mike: windowOut doesn't map to animation of extent
14:28:26 <Zakim> +??P1
14:28:47 <tmichel> zakim, ??P1 is tmichel
14:28:47 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
14:28:47 <nigel> plh: no recollection why this was raised (back in 2005!)
14:29:33 <nigel> sean: close this, we'll get the effect anyway with smooth animation.
14:29:36 <nigel> close issue-23
14:29:36 <trackbot> Closed issue-23.
14:29:41 <nigel> issue-72?
14:29:41 <trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset -- pending review
14:29:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
14:30:38 <nigel> sean: the required properties don't seem to be present
14:30:55 <nigel> mike: this needs to be solved with some kind of region property animation.
14:31:18 <nigel> reopen issue-72
14:31:19 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-72.
14:31:40 <nigel> action on sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation
14:31:40 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.
14:31:50 <nigel> action sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation
14:31:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation [on Sean Hayes - due 2013-10-03].
14:32:06 <nigel> issue-159?
14:32:06 <trackbot> issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script processing -- pending review
14:32:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159
14:32:50 <nigel> sean: this appears to meet my requirements. What about SMPTE's?
14:33:26 <nigel> pal: will have to check. Each of the SMPTE requests were captured in separate tickets.
14:33:45 <nigel> close issue-159
14:33:45 <trackbot> Closed issue-159.
14:33:51 <nigel> issue-167?
14:33:51 <trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements -- pending review
14:33:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
14:35:33 <nigel> mike: this needs further review
14:35:58 <nigel> sean: leave as pending review
14:36:16 <nigel> issue-176
14:36:17 <trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin attributes on block elements -- pending review
14:36:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
14:37:34 <nigel> sean: glenn has added an inline region element, so it can be defined locally and targets its parent element. This is analogous to <set> and is similar to adding the attributes.
14:38:16 <nigel> ... This solves the inheritance problem. It's a reasonable design however the problem is that existing practice has been that people have been doing the CPC proposal.
14:38:41 <nigel> ... We need further input from the industry to say if this is an acceptable solution.
14:39:01 <nigel> mike: agrees with sean
14:39:45 <nigel> nigel: does it permit animation of the extent and origin?
14:40:47 <nigel> sean: yes with an animate element as a child of the region.
14:41:15 <nigel> sean: this is a big change, so not closing at this point. This would be a good agenda item for the f2f to ensure that all the semantics work out.
14:41:34 <nigel> issue-167?
14:41:34 <trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements -- pending review
14:41:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
14:41:42 <nigel> mike: not happy with current approach
14:41:46 <nigel> reopen issue-167
14:41:46 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-167.
14:42:03 <nigel> action mike to add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved issues.
14:42:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved issues. [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].
14:42:36 <nigel> issue-178?
14:42:36 <trackbot> issue-178 -- initial values and style set calculations are unclear, especially for transformable attributes -- pending review
14:42:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178
14:45:06 <nigel> sean: review further and return to this.
14:45:14 <nigel> issue-183?
14:45:14 <trackbot> issue-183 -- semantics of using profile in a document -- pending review
14:45:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183
14:47:01 <nigel> close issue-183
14:47:01 <trackbot> Closed issue-183.
14:47:09 <nigel> sean: further profiles issues will be created if needed
14:47:25 <nigel> issue-206?
14:47:25 <trackbot> issue-206 -- Add ttp:profileCombination parameter -- pending review
14:47:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206
14:48:03 <nigel> sean: want to review further
14:48:10 <nigel> pal: what is this in response to?
14:48:40 <nigel> sean: we created this to capture some previous issues uncovered with SDP-US
14:48:49 <nigel> pal: this adds complexity without rationale.
14:49:12 <nigel> sean: propose leaving open until we've had the f2f session on profiles.
14:49:34 <nigel> pal: I'm adding a note to request more background on this issue.
14:50:13 <nigel> ... on tpac page.
14:50:22 <nigel> issue-225?
14:50:22 <trackbot> issue-225 -- tts:fontSize as percentage of container dimensions -- pending review
14:50:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225
14:51:20 <nigel> sean: not sure of reason for vmin and vmax
14:51:28 <nigel> pal: agree, need to know the rationale.
14:52:42 <nigel> nigel: agree too.
14:53:03 <nigel> sean: I had the same problem as raised by nigel, need to know the unit space in which to do the comparison.
14:53:28 <nigel> sean: we need clarity over meaning of vmin and vmax
14:53:55 <nigel> reopen issue-225
14:53:55 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-225.
14:54:26 <nigel> pal: will add a note for reason for vmin and vmax
14:54:40 <nigel> issue-259?
14:54:40 <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
14:54:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
14:54:54 <plh> q+ on previous issue
14:55:20 <nigel> sean: glenn has added in a determination for closest.
14:55:26 <nigel> issue-259?
14:55:26 <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
14:55:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
14:56:15 <nigel> plh: vmin and vmax are dependent on the size of the root element, body. Percentages further down the tree are based on the size of the parent.
14:56:53 <nigel> ... It gives access to the original extent from anywhere in the tree.
14:57:18 <nigel> sean: What if the pixels aren't logically square - does that make a difference in terms of the minimum/maximum choice?
14:57:36 <nigel> plh: understanding is that it's a comparison of the number of pixels.
14:58:01 <nigel> sean: That's what we are asking for clarification on. What is the real world value being compared and why is vmin and vmax needed?
14:58:44 <nigel> pal: concerned this is done without resolving an incompatible issue in TTML1.
14:59:04 <nigel> ... Until we fix that we can't talk about pixels in any other context.
14:59:16 <nigel> ... The issue is the mapping of logical to physical pixels.
14:59:32 <nigel> topic: aob
14:59:40 <nigel> topic: next week
14:59:50 <nigel> sean: face to face agenda
15:00:18 <nigel> pal: plan to have an updated version of the text and image profiles based on recent DECE improvements that impacts on some of the TPAC issues,
15:00:25 <nigel> ... specifically more consistent rendering of fonts.
15:00:43 <Zakim> -mike
15:00:44 <Zakim> -Plh
15:00:45 <Zakim> -pal
15:00:47 <Zakim> -mijordan
15:00:50 <nigel> zakim, bye
15:00:50 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
15:00:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tt
15:00:55 <nigel> rrsagent, make log public
15:01:02 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:01:06 <nigel> rrsagent, bye
15:01:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items