IRC log of tt on 2013-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:00:33 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tt

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-irc

14:00:35 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:00:35 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #tt

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Zakim, this will be TTML

14:00:37 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start now

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

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Date: 26 September 2013

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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started

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+ +44.154.558.aaaa

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+pal

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+??P17

14:02:11 [nigel]

zakim, ??P17 is me

14:02:11 [Zakim]

+nigel; got it

14:02:23 [Sean]

zakim, aaaa is me

14:02:24 [Zakim]

+Sean; got it

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tmichel has joined #tt

14:03:26 [mike]

mike has joined #tt

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+??P20

14:04:00 [tmichel]

zakim, ??P20 is tmichel

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+tmichel; got it

14:04:24 [Zakim]

+ +1.858.882.aabb

14:04:41 [mike]

zakim, i am aabb

14:04:41 [Zakim]

+mike; got it

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mijordan has joined #tt

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+[Adobe]

14:09:27 [mijordan]

Zakim, mijordan is Adobe

14:09:27 [Zakim]

sorry, mijordan, I do not recognize a party named 'mijordan'

14:09:42 [mijordan]

Zakim, Adobe is mijordan

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+mijordan; got it

14:11:48 [nigel]

topic: f2f at tpac

14:11:56 [tmichel]

So far we have the following people registered at the TTML WG F2F

14:11:57 [tmichel]

Registered as group participant:

14:11:57 [tmichel]

Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org> (W3C Staff) : attending Monday

14:11:57 [tmichel]

Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com> (Comcast Corporation) : attending Monday

14:11:57 [tmichel]

Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> (Cox Communications, Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday

14:11:58 [tmichel]

Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch> (European Broadcasting Union (EBU-UER)) : attending Monday

14:11:59 [tmichel]

David Singer <singer@apple.com> (Apple, Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday

14:12:02 [nigel]

current list of topics is at: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac

14:12:03 [tmichel]

Cyril Concolato <cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr> (INSTITUT TELECOM) : attending Monday

14:12:05 [tmichel]

Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> (MovieLabs) : attending Monday, Friday

14:12:07 [tmichel]

Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org> (W3C Staff) : attending Friday

14:12:34 [tmichel]

So that is 7 people attending

14:12:35 [tmichel]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#TT

14:12:50 [nigel]

I'm likely to register too, assuming we can set goals etc.

14:13:58 [nigel]

sean: add to list: advanced animation and profiles (the latter already present)

14:15:03 [nigel]

tmichel: We should aim to have a functionally correct TTML 2 after the two days

14:15:14 [nigel]

sean: also a working plan for what to do re WebVTT

14:16:55 [nigel]

nigel: what about live TTML?

14:17:31 [nigel]

sean: could be a good opportunity depending on state of work that can be presented by EBU

14:18:16 [nigel]

nigel: should be able to present the use cases and potential solution areas

14:19:43 [nigel]

tmichel: how should we call this?

14:20:07 [plh]

plh has joined #tt

14:20:13 [nigel]

nigel: two topics. 1) Distribution of segmented TTML. 2) Contribution of live TTML, with handovers etc.

14:20:23 [Zakim]

+Plh

14:20:53 [nigel]

sean: can tmichel and nigel take this agenda forward?

14:20:57 [nigel]

tmichel: yes

14:21:01 [nigel]

nigel: yes

14:21:11 [nigel]

scribeNick: nigel

14:21:44 [nigel]

scribeNick is nigel

14:22:18 [nigel]

issue-22?

14:22:18 [trackbot]

issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review

14:22:18 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22

14:22:21 [tmichel]

scribe:nigel

14:22:54 [nigel]

topic: Issues

14:22:58 [nigel]

issue-22?

14:22:58 [trackbot]

issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? -- pending review

14:22:58 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22

14:23:28 [nigel]

sean: do we have the mechanics in the new mechanism to meet the 708 window fade-in and fade-out requirements?

14:23:45 [nigel]

... there are some effects that may not map from 708 to animation.

14:23:59 [nigel]

... Can we close this issue based on what we can achieve with the proposed solution?

14:24:17 [nigel]

mike: it's meaningless to get the effect without meeting 708.

14:25:09 [nigel]

sean: what properties do we need to add to meet all of the 708 effects?

14:25:20 [nigel]

... We need a note on this issue and re-open it.

14:25:56 [nigel]

reopen issue-22

14:25:56 [trackbot]

Re-opened issue-22.

14:26:07 [nigel]

action mike to add additional notes to issue-22

14:26:08 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-209 - Add additional notes to issue-22 [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].

14:26:17 [nigel]

issue-23?

14:26:17 [trackbot]

issue-23 -- intermediate animation of extent -- pending review

14:26:17 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23

14:27:10 [nigel]

sean: not all of the window effect mechanics are present. Propose re-opening unless requirements are actually met.

14:27:37 [nigel]

mike: unaware of this as a 708 requirement

14:27:45 [Zakim]

-tmichel

14:28:05 [nigel]

mike: windowOut doesn't map to animation of extent

14:28:26 [Zakim]

+??P1

14:28:47 [tmichel]

zakim, ??P1 is tmichel

14:28:47 [Zakim]

+tmichel; got it

14:28:47 [nigel]

plh: no recollection why this was raised (back in 2005!)

14:29:33 [nigel]

sean: close this, we'll get the effect anyway with smooth animation.

14:29:36 [nigel]

close issue-23

14:29:36 [trackbot]

Closed issue-23.

14:29:41 [nigel]

issue-72?

14:29:41 [trackbot]

issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset -- pending review

14:29:41 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72

14:30:38 [nigel]

sean: the required properties don't seem to be present

14:30:55 [nigel]

mike: this needs to be solved with some kind of region property animation.

14:31:18 [nigel]

reopen issue-72

14:31:19 [trackbot]

Re-opened issue-72.

14:31:40 [nigel]

action on sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation

14:31:40 [trackbot]

Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

14:31:50 [nigel]

action sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation

14:31:50 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-210 - Add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed to be the subject of animation [on Sean Hayes - due 2013-10-03].

14:32:06 [nigel]

issue-159?

14:32:06 [trackbot]

issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script processing -- pending review

14:32:06 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159

14:32:50 [nigel]

sean: this appears to meet my requirements. What about SMPTE's?

14:33:26 [nigel]

pal: will have to check. Each of the SMPTE requests were captured in separate tickets.

14:33:45 [nigel]

close issue-159

14:33:45 [trackbot]

Closed issue-159.

14:33:51 [nigel]

issue-167?

14:33:51 [trackbot]

issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements -- pending review

14:33:51 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167

14:35:33 [nigel]

mike: this needs further review

14:35:58 [nigel]

sean: leave as pending review

14:36:16 [nigel]

issue-176

14:36:17 [trackbot]

issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin attributes on block elements -- pending review

14:36:17 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176

14:37:34 [nigel]

sean: glenn has added an inline region element, so it can be defined locally and targets its parent element. This is analogous to <set> and is similar to adding the attributes.

14:38:16 [nigel]

... This solves the inheritance problem. It's a reasonable design however the problem is that existing practice has been that people have been doing the CPC proposal.

14:38:41 [nigel]

... We need further input from the industry to say if this is an acceptable solution.

14:39:01 [nigel]

mike: agrees with sean

14:39:45 [nigel]

nigel: does it permit animation of the extent and origin?

14:40:47 [nigel]

sean: yes with an animate element as a child of the region.

14:41:15 [nigel]

sean: this is a big change, so not closing at this point. This would be a good agenda item for the f2f to ensure that all the semantics work out.

14:41:34 [nigel]

issue-167?

14:41:34 [trackbot]

issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements -- pending review

14:41:34 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167

14:41:42 [nigel]

mike: not happy with current approach

14:41:46 [nigel]

reopen issue-167

14:41:46 [trackbot]

Re-opened issue-167.

14:42:03 [nigel]

action mike to add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved issues.

14:42:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-211 - Add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved issues. [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].

14:42:36 [nigel]

issue-178?

14:42:36 [trackbot]

issue-178 -- initial values and style set calculations are unclear, especially for transformable attributes -- pending review

14:42:36 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178

14:45:06 [nigel]

sean: review further and return to this.

14:45:14 [nigel]

issue-183?

14:45:14 [trackbot]

issue-183 -- semantics of using profile in a document -- pending review

14:45:14 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183

14:47:01 [nigel]

close issue-183

14:47:01 [trackbot]

Closed issue-183.

14:47:09 [nigel]

sean: further profiles issues will be created if needed

14:47:25 [nigel]

issue-206?

14:47:25 [trackbot]

issue-206 -- Add ttp:profileCombination parameter -- pending review

14:47:25 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206

14:48:03 [nigel]

sean: want to review further

14:48:10 [nigel]

pal: what is this in response to?

14:48:40 [nigel]

sean: we created this to capture some previous issues uncovered with SDP-US

14:48:49 [nigel]

pal: this adds complexity without rationale.

14:49:12 [nigel]

sean: propose leaving open until we've had the f2f session on profiles.

14:49:34 [nigel]

pal: I'm adding a note to request more background on this issue.

14:50:13 [nigel]

... on tpac page.

14:50:22 [nigel]

issue-225?

14:50:22 [trackbot]

issue-225 -- tts:fontSize as percentage of container dimensions -- pending review

14:50:22 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225

14:51:20 [nigel]

sean: not sure of reason for vmin and vmax

14:51:28 [nigel]

pal: agree, need to know the rationale.

14:52:42 [nigel]

nigel: agree too.

14:53:03 [nigel]

sean: I had the same problem as raised by nigel, need to know the unit space in which to do the comparison.

14:53:28 [nigel]

sean: we need clarity over meaning of vmin and vmax

14:53:55 [nigel]

reopen issue-225

14:53:55 [trackbot]

Re-opened issue-225.

14:54:26 [nigel]

pal: will add a note for reason for vmin and vmax

14:54:40 [nigel]

issue-259?

14:54:40 [trackbot]

issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

14:54:40 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

14:54:54 [plh]

q+ on previous issue

14:55:20 [nigel]

sean: glenn has added in a determination for closest.

14:55:26 [nigel]

issue-259?

14:55:26 [trackbot]

issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

14:55:26 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

14:56:15 [nigel]

plh: vmin and vmax are dependent on the size of the root element, body. Percentages further down the tree are based on the size of the parent.

14:56:53 [nigel]

... It gives access to the original extent from anywhere in the tree.

14:57:18 [nigel]

sean: What if the pixels aren't logically square - does that make a difference in terms of the minimum/maximum choice?

14:57:36 [nigel]

plh: understanding is that it's a comparison of the number of pixels.

14:58:01 [nigel]

sean: That's what we are asking for clarification on. What is the real world value being compared and why is vmin and vmax needed?

14:58:44 [nigel]

pal: concerned this is done without resolving an incompatible issue in TTML1.

14:59:04 [nigel]

... Until we fix that we can't talk about pixels in any other context.

14:59:16 [nigel]

... The issue is the mapping of logical to physical pixels.

14:59:32 [nigel]

topic: aob

14:59:40 [nigel]

topic: next week

14:59:50 [nigel]

sean: face to face agenda

15:00:18 [nigel]

pal: plan to have an updated version of the text and image profiles based on recent DECE improvements that impacts on some of the TPAC issues,

15:00:25 [nigel]

... specifically more consistent rendering of fonts.

15:00:43 [Zakim]

-mike

15:00:44 [Zakim]

-Plh

15:00:45 [Zakim]

-pal

15:00:47 [Zakim]

-mijordan

15:00:50 [nigel]

zakim, bye

15:00:50 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh

15:00:50 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tt

15:00:55 [nigel]

rrsagent, make log public

15:01:02 [nigel]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:01:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html nigel

15:01:06 [nigel]

rrsagent, bye

15:01:06 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items