See also: IRC log
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-cognitive-a11y-tf.html
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/imageadvice/
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGTechs20130910/
<scribe> scribe:david
<scribe> SCRIBE: David
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-cognitive-a11y-tf.html****
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-cognitive-a11y-tf.html
typo: were vs. where in objective section
PK: bulk of objective should it not be surveying and examining the space... obj. says developing guidelines, but none of the other sections talk about that...
<AWK> Inn cognitive objective - "guidelines" is supposed to be removed. This TF is not producing Guidelines
AWK: scope is more accurate ... objective should not include guidelines...
Josh: gap analysis is what it is about.
PK: concerned about "Building a business case, identification of resistance, risks and opportunities. " sounds too political
<AWK> Peter, do you think that the whole bullet needs to be removed or just change "resistance" to "challenges"?
<Joshue> +q
Katie: agree about political stuff... agree should not be about... important work just need clarity
<Ryladog_> +1
PK: like katie's comment about
one thing helpful to some PWD may hurt others, we need to call
this out...
... clarification of understanding document... good
<korn> AWK, I think it is best removed, but would would certainly entertain suggested edits.
PK wary of the word guidline, because similar to WCAG language on guidelines
<korn> David - I'm wary of the word "guidance", as it is simlar to "guideline"
Josh: agree on overlapping techniques, noting that, conflicts and common helpful things
<Joshue> -q
Katie: all techniques would fall under existing SCs, identifying soecific target group
s/soecfic/specific
<korn> Katie - I would like to see language more like "may suggest changes/improvements and develop new techniques for EXISTING WCAG 2.0 SCs"
Katie: draw attention to help a disability vs, it being a distraction, spacing of text...
<AWK> Perhaps to bullet "Gathering information on different related technologies and techniques." add "including where techniques in support of cognitive and learning disabled users may conflict with what is needed for other users"
PK: tietac work Dr. Clayton Lewis
pointed out that hiding complexity in UI, only showing menu
optons as they get used is very helpful for some... but users
who expect something to be in a particular order may find it
difficult...
... need flexibility of design... but that is hard to test, and
write a guideline for
... when do you know when to hide and show... can't test... is
there a set of advices a level below a technique, non testable
non conformable best practice advice, a level below AAA, that
might be productive
Katie: new phone, easy button,
simplifies the UI...
... not as broad and scary ... just because something is
difficult doesn't mean don't do it... let's just fix
language..
PK: clearly scope is... soping to exisitng sc,
<Ryladog> +1 to David not allocating to AAA only
<Joshue> +1 from me also
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say scope shouldn´t be limited to existing SC, because it´s part of exploration of potential new formal guidance, but any deliverables beyond use cases
MC: shouldn't limit to existing SC, because we are looking at future versions. if it were to propose techniques they would have to map to existing, or wait for future WCAG version
Josh: agree that AAA gets ignored
David: concerned about relegating to lower than AAA...
PK: not AAAA but rather just not testable techniques
<Ryladog_> test
MC: our charter is that we look
at the future, goes in effect soon, does not permit us to do
formal rec track guidance... but we will do gap analysis
etc..
... we may recharter to do new guidelines
AWK: want to focus back on key
<MichaelC> Draft WCAG charter
question
AWK WCAg want to be part of this? as a joint TR, and do we have resources...
Katie: Expect Lisa has contacts to help
MJ: there are just a few involved with WAI ARIA and Mobile is coming up... feeling split...
Josh: michael... it is allowed
either as joint or separate, which would be less involvement...
maybe throwing stuff over the wall...
... but we should be included
Cathy: if not joint can we join, and if they do techniues should we not be involved
Josh: is there any objections to this being a joint tast force
<korn> No objection
Kertin: already written my concerns... worried about non testable techniques
Kerstin: is it in our scope
RESOLUTION: we accept that this will be joint task force between the PF and WCAG
Josh: we all have concern but the is energy and enthusiasm
Katie: may be able to be testable
PK: support it being Joint... but
odd that primary initiator is PF it is not at the protocol
level but rather at the level of the content that is best or
Cognitive
... don't want it explicit that they are non testable...
<Joshue> +q
AWK: we have a good opportunity to engage early... and dig into techniques early...
MC: advisory vs sufficient techniques... don't generally take trouble to write up advisory techniques... testability not a show stopper just how we handle them...
<Joshue> "In the same sprit the task force expect to produces some testable authoring techniques, but we are also expecting to produce techniques that are advisory."
Josh: concerned about non testable... maybe advisory
<MichaelC> (*sufficient* techniques have to be testable but advisory ones can be non-testable)
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/imageadvice/
<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask David if he feels that the star example would not meet 1.1.1
<Joshue> zaki, queue?
at AWK ... i don't think it does... it at least an awkward fit
<AWK> I'll redial
<AWK> I just wanted to say that Steve said that if we have bugs/comments on the specific text in the 4.8.1.1 that they get logged as bugs
<AWK> redialing
MC: Mobility task force... going to UAAG, we haven't talked about it, need to pass resolution.
<AWK> Sorry, I neglected to add the URI for the Mobile TF to the agenda
<AWK> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-mobile-a11y-tf
<MichaelC> UAWG minutes approving Joint TF on Mobile
MC: Joint task force UAAG and
WCAG on Mobile
... we haven't voted yet
<Ryladog> Can someone resubmit that URL, as I was kickedout again and missed it?
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-mobile-a11y-tf
Josh: let's vote
<Ryladog> ty
PK: concerned about hours... on TF
<Joshue> typo on "Mobile Accessibility Task Force will also coordinate with the Protocls and Formats Working Group, "
MC: Task force work counts
towards good standing of WCAG... w3c culture moving toward
mailing lists as valuable... have to manage your own time... 2
task forces, reasonable total time adding up to reasonable
amount...
... we can add it to the home page
<MichaelC> ACTION: cooper to clarify on WCAG home page that participation in TFs counts to overall WG participation expectations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-217 - Clarify on wcag home page that participation in tfs counts to overall wg participation expectations [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-09-24].
<Alands> I would be interested in participation in the Mobile Accessibility Task Force. Not sure what the official method is for requesting as such.
RESOLUTION: we are Joint sponsors of the mobility task force
<Ryladog> testing
<MichaelC> WCAG WG Task Forces
Task forces we belong to now Cognitive, mobility, Evaluation methodology , WAI ARIA, test samples, WCAT2ICT closing
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGTechs20130910/
<Ryladog> q
<Joshue> DMacD: Was talking with SteveF, he's concerned about where text alternatives are duplicated, an images non-conforming in HTML5 without @alt unless in a figure element.
<AWK> ACTION on AWK to make suggestions on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls and http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_provide_a_text_alternative_for_non-text_content
<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
<Joshue> DMacD: There are other concerns.
<AWK> ACTION AWK to make suggestions on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls and http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_provide_a_text_alternative_for_non-text_content
<trackbot> Created ACTION-218 - Make suggestions on http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls and http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_aria-labelledby_to_provide_a_text_alternative_for_non-text_content [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2013-09-24].
<Joshue> ack
<Alands> oops, hit the end button as I put my iPhone in my pocket. Usability issue.
test am I still i irc
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/soecfic/specific/ Succeeded: s/does/AWK/ Succeeded: s/the OF/the PF/ Succeeded: s/Ria/ARIA/ Found Scribe: david Inferring ScribeNick: David Found Scribe: David Inferring ScribeNick: David Default Present: +1.978.261.aabb, +1.978.443.aacc, Peter_Korn, Kathy, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, +1.703.861.aadd, AWK, Cherie, Katie, Kerstin Present: +1.978.261.aabb +1.978.443.aacc Peter_Korn Kathy David_MacDonald Marc_Johlic +1.703.861.aadd AWK Cherie Katie Kerstin Regrets: Loretta Got date from IRC log name: 17 Sep 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html People with action items: cooper WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]