HTML A11y TF telecon

05 Sep 2013

See also: IRC log


MarkS, John_Foliot, Judy, janina, paul, LJWatson, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly
david_macdonald, chaals
Steve Faulkner
Léonie Watson


scribenick LJWatson

Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<scribe> Scribe: Léonie Watson

<paulc_> rejoining

Publication of "Using WAI-ARIA in HTML" – PF WG must approve this heartbeat document.

JS: PF hasn't discussed this yet.
... Do we have a previously open action on this?

SF: I think the TF does.

JS: Has the document changed since the last publication?

SF: Yes. Changes in response to feedback.

<paulc_> From the SOTD: This document was developed through the HTML Accessibility Taskforce, with approval by the Protocols and Formats Working Group, and published by the HTML Working Group.

JS: Shawn Henry will want to take a look, to ensure WAI is correctly represented in the document. That may add time.

<paulc_> See http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-in-html/

JS: Will ensure this comes up on the PF call next week.
... Is it reasonable to go out as a heartbeat?

SF: It's more about the process.

PC: You should do what's required. It appears to have been approved by all three groups.

JB: It hasn't.
... Accidently something was put in the document status that wasn't accurate. We need to clear that up. It won't be ready to go out with the other heartbeat documents, but let's do it the right way.

PC: There is no batch of heartbeat documents. They're trickling out one at a time.
... PF and the TF should decide what they want to do, and keep the chairs updated.

SF: We need to get the CFC for PF and the TF under way then.

JS: Is it ready for that?

SF: Yes.

JS: Next time there is a heartbeat call, that should trigger a response from the TF to "dot the Is and cross the Ts" of the document.

Status of longdesc LC bugs – see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Sep/0006.html

SF: Chaals sent his regrets.

<SteveF> chaals writes: We have some proposed tests, and I have posted some results in the wiki page - and added a new test, based on comments from Leonie. Next week I expect to have properly logged bugs matching comments received so far.

PC: Chaals mentioned using a tracker tool. Will you not use Bugzilla?

MS: The tracker tool is useful, but we'll also file bugs when we find them in Bugzilla.

PC: It's a useful way of keeping a "paper trail".

JF: Mark, do you mean the comment tracker?

MS: Yes.

JF: It's not clear how to comment via the tracker.

MS: It's best for working on responses collaboratively. Best approach is to use email for comments, then the tracker for working up any resulting docs.

Confirmation that the TF is okay with the closure of the following two CfCs

<SteveF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Jun/0033.html

MS: We sent our formal response yesterday, and appreciate the additional time the HTML WG gave the Task Force to complete their research.

PC: Where was the response sent?

<MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Sep/0013.html

<MarkS> HTML5 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Sep/0012.html

PC: High level summary is that this is a great job Mark. You've given the chairs what they need to take your input and come to a proposed decision on how to reflect it.

MS: Spec states that an image with empty alt should have a role of presentation. We'll need to push the browsers to implement that.

RS: That'll take the image out of the accessibility tree.

CS: Is it in the HTML to Accessibility API mapping document?

SF: Yes, think it is.

JS: This is fundamental. I think we're just short of implementations though.
... The question is whether we feel this is unimplementable, even though it hasn't yet been implemented?

RS: It's definitely implementable.

CS: Have we asked anyone other than Firefox about this?

RS: There's a lot in HTML5 to implement, removing something from the acc tree probably wasn't a high priority!

MS: the spec says the aria-level should be adjusted based on the outline algorithmn.

RS: The outline algorithm is out the window now, right?

SF: Yes.

JS: Strikes me this is useful information - the h1, h2 etc.

SF: So having heading levels not reflect the nesting level is something you'd like implemented?

JS: I think so.

SF: If you nest <section> elements, the subsequent heading would then be reported as an h4.
... The spec would need updating.

MS: Headings are still used arbitrarily by most developers. With this feature we give ATs the option to allow the user to switch.

SF: The AT should receive information about the outline and/or what level the heading is.

Think we need to revisit what's in the spec. HTML5.1 or ARIA 1.1, or do we make a case for it under HTML5.0?

SF: 5.0 should reflect current implementations, we can revisit it in 5.1.
... we need to look at how labels, sectioning elements and headings interlate.

RS: On focus rings, in Chrome if something doesn't have focus, you can assign location information to it instead. It's a bandaid.

SF: That's in Canary?

RS: Yes.

HTML5 testing

MS: We concluded the work on the CFC. We should continue looking at it though.

JS: I'd like to suggest a motion of thank to Mark for his work on this.

Thanks from everyone.

Alt Edits Review

SF: Have had a discussion with Joshue, they've conducted a review and have comments. Have asked him to send them through to the TF and file bugs.

JS: We're getting close then?

Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media;

<MarkS> LW: bug triage met intermittently over summer season

<MarkS> ...worked with mark on research required for html5 testing cfc

<SteveF> leonie: need people for bug triage

<MarkS> ...continuing to have a hard time getting experienced members on the calls

JF: Will help out but call times are difficult.

LW: Calls are currently 6pm BST, think that's 10am PST.

SF: API mapping is moving forward.There is a CFC coming up, but lots more work to do. Alexander Surkov is now on board and helping us greatly.
... Media?

JF: We keep trying, but Janina and I are "like ships in the night"...

JB: Shall we give you a deadline?

JS: 2pm yours, 5pm mine, that works!

<JF> -

Potential for TF Participation at TPAC 2013?

SF: Won't be at TPAC.

JF: Neither will I.

LW: Me either.

MS: I'll be there and for Test It Forward too.

JS: I'll be there for IndieUI.

PC: Will the TF want any WG time?

JS: Doesn't look like it.

JB: There could be some remote participation?

PC: The time difference is brutal.
... One obvious topic would be longdesc, if we do meet at TPAC.
... Also possibly Media Streaming?

JB: Both are interesting ideas.
... If we can hold open the possibility of a F2F at TPAC a little longer, that would be good.

PC: There is a vicious circle, people not going because they feel there is no critical mass of people, and no critical mass because people aren't going.

<richardschwerdtfeger> dropping

PC: Another possibility, if we don't have critical mass but many local observers, perhaps we could spend some time presenting on what the TF etc. is doing?

JB: We're working on this idea already.

PC: Would be glad to help.

B: Thank you.

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: MarkS, John_Foliot, Judy, janina, paul, LJWatson, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly
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Regrets: david_macdonald chaals
Got date from IRC log name: 05 Sep 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/05-html-a11y-minutes.html
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