<trackbot> Date: 19 August 2013

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<janina> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 19 August 2013

<richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich

<richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0027.html

<scribe> scribe: jcraig

next steps on @aria-describedat

RS: group thought taking an ID would be a good idea
... IDREF of a@ref, link@rel, iframe, etc.

MC: I think this goes against the idea of @decribedat
... author confusion with @aria-describedby, additional processing for UA, etc.

RS: One example use is what description has multiple translations, like source sets or media tracks.

MC: confusion is that one is the description contents, and the other is a link to the description. Authors may not understand that.
... "at" (as in describedat) indicates a pointer. If we want to repurpose this one, we should rename it too. possibly @aria-descreference?

aria-descref?

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to propose we add both ¨describedat¨ with URI and ¨descriptionreference¨ with IDREF / href

RS: consensus is that @longdesc is not enough.

MC: @aria-describedat would still take a URI. If we need an IDREF to a linking element (e.g. link, iframe), that should be a different attr

<janina> Head of email thread (with 2 messages):

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0003.html

MC: I am not arguing against the IDREF to linking element, but saying we still need the IDREF use case

<jongund> 1+

RS: Multiple descriptions in different languages, and potentially different media formats, different grade level (Janina)?

JS: @aria-describedby is auto-spoken, where this new would be be an on-demand user navigation

RS: The IDREF of this new attr could be a element or elements representing a collection of resources representing the various forms (whether, language, format, etc) of descriptions.

JG: If you allow describedby to take a URI, would that satisfy the requirement?

JS: not if it's auto-presented to the user

JC: That could be a UA processing difference

JS: Concern that the processing difference would be overloading.

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to request clarification from Janina on her comment about different grade level

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/Overview.html#Descriptions_external

Clown: example in authoring practices saying you can do that now

MC: You should remove that example from the authoring practices

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say that the proposal for describedat was when we were looking for a solution around overloading describedby with a URI; so would like to keep the simple

Clown: what about using a URI or Fragment-Identifier

MC: thought it was crazy to overload a single attr with both IDREF and URI

<janina> Call it DescHref ?

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to request clarification from Janina on her comment about different grade level and to say frag-id is the not the same as URI

describedby="foo"

describedat="#foo"

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to request clarification from Janina on her comment about different grade level

JS: DAISY/IDPF suggested this use case for content negotiation based on different reading level

JC: I agree with the need for that use case, but I don't think the content negotiation part of it should be ARIA

MC: want to clarify with implementors: in-document IDREF processing can use a difference processing path that getting an element from a fragment identifier

RS: Consensus?

MC: Consensus for *proposal* of this approach
... Mapped out by Sept?

RS: A public editors draft would be sufficient

<Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to point out that the describeby eg. in the APG is handled by FF

JS: point is, that it's not abundantly clear that this use case is not already handled by browsers
... +1 for the URI (with potential frag id) idea

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention concern that we're rushing based on some arbitrary timeline "commitment" to outside groups. Are the "commitments" publicly documented?

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/describedat.html

<clown> <canvas aria-describedat="#canvas-desc">

<scribe> ACTION: jcraig to add describedat using URI+FragID starting from Steve and Rich's proposed: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/describedat.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-pf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1250 - Add describedat using uri+fragid starting from steve and rich's proposed: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/describedat.html [on James Craig - due 2013-08-26].

<clown> action-691?

<trackbot> action-691 -- Michael Cooper to Propose an approach for adding ARIA landmarks to the specs and work with editors -- due 2012-11-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/691

<clown> action-1138?

<trackbot> action-1138 -- Michael Cooper to Update Role Attr ref after it gets to Recommendation status -- due 2012-01-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1138

<clown> action-1201?

<trackbot> action-1201 -- James Nurthen to Generate example list where options can be unselectable -- due 2013-05-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1201

<clown> action-1218?

<trackbot> action-1218 -- James Craig to Add informative note to ARIA 1.0 that authors should not rely on rowgroup mappings on all platforms and therefore should not use additional attributes on an element with role rowgroup. -- due 2013-07-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1218

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/

<scribe> ACTION: Jcraig to check if action-691, action-1138, action-1151, action-1201, and action-1218 impact 1.0 source, if so, complete edits before branching for 1.1. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-pf-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1251 - Check if action-691, action-1138, action-1151, action-1201, and action-1218 impact 1.0 source, if so, complete edits before branching for 1.1. [on James Craig - due 2013-08-26].

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

<clown> issue-595?

<trackbot> issue-595 -- treegrid for UIA has outline roles vs. gridcell roles. IE implemented gridcell - Change it? -- closed

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/595

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=1

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=2

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex

<MichaelC> ¨When a keydown event is cancelled, also cancel the keypress event.¨

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex

<clown> step 7. for above link ^

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/different grade level?/different grade level (Janina)?/
Found Scribe: jcraig
Inferring ScribeNick: jcraig
Default Present: Jon_Gunderson, Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, janina, James_Craig, Cooper
Present: Jon_Gunderson Rich Joseph_Scheuhammer janina James_Craig Cooper
Found Date: 19 Aug 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-pf-minutes.html
People with action items: jcraig

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