See also: IRC log
<AWK> Scribe: Kathy
<scribe> scribe: Kathy
Andrew: Can choose more than one. We want to distribute the work
Josh - we can look at who has done the work and then assign the work out
Kathy - I will write the response for next week
Andrew - it would be good if we can have responses by the end of this week
Josh - take a look at the items not assigned and see if you can respond
<Loretta> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13Aug2013/results#xq4
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/2790
Josh - who should respond to LC-2790: Using aria-describedby to provide descriptions of objects
Josh - I will respond to this one
Josh - LC-2785: *Labels or Instructions*: Understanding SC 3.3.2
<David> am I here?
David - I will take this one and LC-2811, LC-2806
Andrew - please get them in by Friday
Loretta - put in WG Notes and resolution. Submit as proposal
Andrew - submit as proposal changes the status
<Loretta> Don't put int WG notes - people usually don't notice them.
<Loretta> WG notes are a better place for keeping WG history about the issue.
Josh - Michael has set up a WIKI page. Every week we will look at a success criteria and capture the information.
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory
Andrew - we may just want to jot down what the questions are
Loretta - this is helpful exercise especially for those who were not there
Josh - what are some of the framing questions?
Josh - what do you remember about the development of a success criteria that may not be apparent
Loretta - what is it about 1.3.1 that you have questions about?
Josh - something that I find is front-loaded. Very important success criteria. Covers a lot of what we need to do to make something is accessible. This is a good success criteria.
Andrew - had a review done and had comments on 1.3.1 that were wide ranging. For example, list of links is not marked up as a list. Another is headings but not marked up as headings
David - this one is turned in a catch all success criteria. This one we were trying to consolidate.
David - we could have spent more time on 4.1.2 to articulate it a bit more and clarified the boundries
<Joshue> KW: Different experts in the field categorize form controls under various SCs. So where does it sit?
Loretta - 1.1.1 has reference to form controls
Andrew - are all form controls non-text content
Loretta - we did not define what text is
<AWK> From understanding 1.1.1: For non-text content that is a control or accepts user input, such as images used as submit buttons, image maps or complex animations, a name is provided to describe the purpose of the non-text content so that the person at least knows what the non-text content is and why it is there.
Bruce: Can have a single element on a page for form control that falls under 1.1.1 and 1.3.1. The major thing for 1.3.1, it is a bucket
James - it was not the intent that it would fall under 1.1.1. It could be misinterpreted
<AWK> +1 James's comment
<Joshue> +q
Loretta - elements can have to meet multiple success criteria. This was intentional
Josh - interesting conversation. We need a way of capturing this. We could have everyone put this on the WIKI.
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say we can put pointer to minutes in wiki and to say it could be useful to have someone try to distill from minutes, before everyone sticks repeated stuff
Andrew - it was important for technology independence to have 1.3.1 to be less well defined. It is a difficult balance
Michael - we are scribing the minutes and we can put a link to the minutes in the WIKI. It would be good to have a person to distill the meeting into WIKI and then people can add comments
Josh - for everyone that makes a comment, let's make sure that it is minutes. That would make it easier for the person to add to the WIKI
Andrew - Loretta, question for you. We have had a number of discussions on low vision. There are a number of things that 1.3.1 applies to
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory/SC_1.3.1
Loretta - Added it to the WIKI. The goal of 1.3.1 is to expose it to AT and that the AT would expose this information in the way that they need it. In the case of low-vision, they may not be using AT. Tied to what is accessibility support and how far does the author's responsibility go
Josh - Bring back to the logistics, Michael would you be able to look through the minutes and add them to the WIKI.
Michael - yes
Josh - we can take turns adding it to the WIKI
Loretta - have a look at what I have added into the wiki
Josh - 1.3.1 is loaded with so much stuff so it is helpful to have it listed here
Josh- don't worry about categorization, let's get the comment in the WIKI
Loretta - where the pain points are for reviews sparks the discussion
Andrew - reminder we are looking for feedback on the alt information
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-wai-wcag-minutes#item04
http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Josh - here is the link for the alt-text: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013//results
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
David - already submitted comments as bugs
Loretta - if there is text on the page that describes the image, then aria-labelledby can be used
David - is this an alternative for the image?
Loretta - depends on what is in the label
David - need to check the accessibility support
Loretta - if there is accessibility support then this is a reasonable approach, adding the same information in alt can take longer to load the page
Loretta - it is push back that i have had before. Also for localization
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013/
Josh - we should flag this with task force. The survey is open for the next couple of weeks. Take a look at the spec and add in comments.
David - if we are submitting comments, then need sufficient agreement in the group. We should see what the group feels about aria-labelledby
Michael - aria-labelledby is one technique, less preferred than the native methods such as alt attribute. But there are reasons for things to be different so the possibility exists
Josh - where the advice for localization live? WCAG but the lines get blurred. HTML5 needs to have information on creating accessible content
<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013/results#xq4
Andrew - ask Loretta about comment in survey
Loretta - if we look at the 1.1.1 then there are situations where we have a form control where we need a label. For a generic image, that should be the text equivalent. Spec does not require the alt attribute
Josh - good discussion and it is good to have the opinions. Please respond to the survey. It will be open for a couple of weeks. May go around in circles with discussions in other groups
Loretta - this information should live .... HTML5 spec has a larger reach. We need to make sure the information is correct.
Josh - leave this for the next couple of weeks and then we will regroup.
Andrew - remember to respond by Friday to your assignments
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/+1 James/+1 James's comment/ Found Scribe: Kathy Inferring ScribeNick: Kathy Found Scribe: Kathy Inferring ScribeNick: Kathy Default Present: David_MacDonald, Joshue, [Adobe], Bruce_Bailey, AWK, +1.978.261.aaaa, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen Present: David_MacDonald Joshue [Adobe] Bruce_Bailey AWK +1.978.261.aaaa Loretta Michael_Cooper Marc_Johlic Kathy_Wahlbin James_Nurthen Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JulSep/0046.html Got date from IRC log name: 13 Aug 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]