Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

<trc> Hi, this is Tyng-Ruey Chuang. Nick trc.

<SethSL> 212.389 is me... SethSL = Seth Seigel-Laddy

<karen_> Ivan: handing chair back to Markus

<karen_> Markus: Welcome everybody to the first get together of this interest group

<karen_> ...Yesterday I sent out the agenda

<karen_> ...Today is a lot about logistics

<karen_> ...Great to see a good number already

<karen_> ...We will be talking later, both chairs and W3C staff

<karen_> ...to encourage members to show up over the next months

<karen_> ...Today we thought we would go around the table to introduce ourselves briefly

<karen_> ...We will also go through the charter

<karen_> ...for clarities, what charter is asking us to do by when

<karen_> ...So we don't discuss scope later on

<karen_> ...it should be clear from the start

<karen_> ...We'll talk about telcos and which face-to-face meetings

<karen_> ...Also talk about group extensions

<karen_> ...and talk about the work methodology

<karen_> ...where we see ourselves starting and going about the work in the initial part of the chart

<karen_> ...Does anyone have any additional agenda items to add?

<karen_> ...Ok, introductions

<karen_> ...My suggestion is that we do introductions in alphabetical order as seen on irc

<karen_> Frederick Hirsch: sorry to be late

<karen_> Markus: Ok

<karen_> Rob @ at Los Alamos National Lab

<karen_> Rob: interest in W3C community group; interest in annotations in epub; also attended February workshop

<karen_> ...very much look forward to working with the group and feel that annotation has a role to play

<karen_> ...for web and for digital publishing arena

<karen_> Markus: next is Bert

<karen_> Bert Bos, W3C: sorry, muted

<karen_> ...I have two roles and why I am here

<karen_> ...one is staff contact for MathML

<karen_> ...standards that are useful for publishing

<karen_> ...other role is staff contact for CSS Working Group

<karen_> ...assume there will be requirements coming out of this group to pass along to CSS WG

<karen_> Markus: FJH

<karen_> Frederick Hirsch: I work for Nokia

<karen_> ...on Open Web Platform; interested in how publishing will evolve

<karen_> Hajar: I work in @

<karen_> ...in digital publishing project

<fjh> I also chair the W3C Device APIs wg, interested ePub3 as well

<fjh> also chair W3C XML Security WG

<karen_> Ivan Herman: Also at W3C, Activity Lead for Digital Publishing and one of staff contacts for this Interest Group

<azaroth> Do we have a backup scribe for karen_?

<karen_> Karen Myers: also with W3C, doing member relations and outreach, organizing digital publishing events for this activity

<karen_> ...scribing today, but not so much going forward as I will not do the technical work

<karen_> Madi Solomon: I am co-chair with Markus of this Interest Group

<karen_> ...based in London with Pearson

<karen_> ...also co-chair of @ Community Group

<karen_> ...jumping in with both fee

<karen_> s/feet

<karen_> Markus: Working with Daisy Consortium with George for some time

<karen_> ...main focus has been accessibility

<karen_> ...also working with IDPF

<karen_> ...doing the ePub3 specifications

<karen_> Miel: I work with semantic web technologies; interest in how this can help digital publishing

<karen_> Peter Linss: I work for HP; co-chair of CSS; also co-chairing upcoming dig pub workshop on workflow in Paris

<karen_> Seth Seigel-Laddy: VP and digital services at Scholastic

<karen_> ...which is transitioning to epub3

<karen_> ...interested in fixed formats

<karen_> ...seeing transitions in schools...particularly in speech

<karen_> Sharad: from Intel Corp.

<karen_> ...manager of Intel Education

<karen_> ...worked at W3C web services

<karen_> ...was editor for their requirements doc

<karen_> ...I am interested in digital publshing formats, particularly epub security

<karen_> Thierry Michel: I am the other W3C staff contact

<karen_> ...based in France

<karen_> ...joined from the beginning and organized workshop

<karen_> ...helping you guys to run this group, so please do not hesitate to contact me

<karen_> Tom De Nies: I work at iMinds - Ghent University

<karen_> ...project we're doing I'm focused on Semantic Web, metadata and provenance

<karen_> ...also member of Provenance WG

<karen_> ...interested in what we are going to do here

<karen_> Tyng-Ruey Chuang: Academica Sinica

<karen_> ...mostly working on @

<karen_> Jeanne Kaplansky, Aptara: solutions architect

<karen_> ...we have interest in W3C standards

<karen_> ...been following since early '90s

<karen_> ...sit on indexing group for IDPF

<karen_> ...also interested in MathML

<karen_> ...talking about more support for MathML

<ivan> s/Denise/De Nies/

<karen_> ...company has great interest in web standards

<karen_> ...and web projects

<karen_> George Kerscher: with Daisy Consortium

<karen_> ...we're super interested in ePub3

<karen_> ...Daisy Consortium has endorsed ePub3 and we are moving into that domain as systems an authoring tools come into that domain

<karen_> ...hoping in future Daisy Consortium materials will be coming into epub

<karen_> ...moving disability needs into mainstream is goal of ours

<karen_> ...we have been members of W3C for many years

<karen_> ...and serve as part of stearing council for Web Accessibility Initiative

<karen_> Markus: anyone who did not introduce themselves?

<karen_> ...next on agenda is to look at the charter

<karen_> ...if there are questions or remarks, suggest we do that now

<karen_> ...since you joined group, hope you have read the charter

<karen_> ...in enough detail to understand what the intent is

<karen_> ...it's nice in its compactness

<karen_> ...seems pretty clear to me

<karen_> ...But will repeat what is obvious

<tmichel> Digital Publishing Interest Group Charter

<tmichel> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/digpubig.html

<karen_> ...it's not a group to create specifications

<karen_> ...but to identify problems

<karen_> ...this as many of you know

<karen_> ...is a very difficult thing to do with technical people in group

<karen_> ...who want to go into technical design space

<karen_> ...Madi and I will push hard so we do not design solutions here

<karen_> ...but that said, Ivan, Thierry and Karen correct me if wrong

<karen_> ...Looks like one easy way to summarize is that it takes major steps

<karen_> ...First is the collection of use cases and requirements

<karen_> ...describing all the things that the publishing industry wants to do with the OWP but cannot do yet

<karen_> ...describe the issues and the features

<karen_> ...The second step of course is once that opus matures

<karen_> ...is to start an outreach to the relevant W3C Working Groups

<karen_> ...and discuss and have an impact about how to address these features

<karen_> ...Ivan, Thierry, would you agree?

<karen_> ...overly simplistic or did I miss it?

<karen_> Thierry: I think you summarized excellently the scope and deliverables

<karen_> Ivan: I actually do have something to say

<karen_> ...one is what you said is absolutely true

<karen_> ...the reality we have to prepare ourselves with

<karen_> ...is that if we go to one or more of the Working Groups

<karen_> ...and we have chairs or staff contacts who may react on this

<karen_> ...You may hear, that is all nice, but we don't have enough people to put it through properly

<karen_> ...We can do that only if you are prepared to do the work

<karen_> ...So in practice what that means

<karen_> ...is that either you or a colleague joins a specific group, say CSS, and pushes that item through to completion in the WG

<fjh> +1

<karen_> ...I know Peter is here, Bert...

<karen_> ...this is a realistic expectation, yes?

<karen_> Peter: yes, of course

<Bert> +1

<karen_> Ivan: so this is one thing

<karen_> ...the other thing that is in the charter

<karen_> ...it's important, in some sense direction

<karen_> ...feedback we got from the publishing industry

<karen_> ...is that it is very difficult to find your way through the maze of W3C recommendations

<karen_> ...and to find out which ones are relevant to digital publishing industry

<karen_> ...so we should produce a prioritized list of W3C specifications that the digital publishing industry should know about

<karen_> ...that is a parallel work that is also important

<karen_> ...Third one again, we got a lot of feedback from industry that interoperability of ebook readers is a problem

<karen_> ...even if they rely on Webkit

<karen_> ...to improve that, this community should also be in position to add test cases to overall work on testing

<karen_> ...being done at W3C right now

<karen_> ...So that of course

<Bert> mgylling: See sect 2 in cgharter with deliverables.

<Bert> ... Develop reqs.

<fjh> Ivan: hard to find way through maze of w3c specs to find what is relevant, - need to produce list of w3c specs digitial publishing industry needs to know about, additional deliverable

<Bert> ... with help from W3C [noise] specifications involved.

<fjh> Ivan: interoperability of ebook readers is a problem, even if rely on webkit etc ; community needs to be able to add test cases to test cases being developed at w3c, another deliverable

<ivan> scribe ivan:

<ivan> azaroth: the open annotation is on a community group

<ivan> … does that have an impact

Robert: is there an impact on the community group to be beneficial to the IG
... should we be forming a WG within time frame so that documents can be referenced

Ivan: I would look at that in general framework of priority
... of what technologies come up
... Madi and Markus will have to set up and how annotation fits into this
... at the moment, I would not make a difference between certain issues being controlled by CG or IG
... or to the MathML group for example
... the way you handle it is different
... different structure, but I think they should look at the issues the same way
... does that answer:

@: yes

Markus: yes, I agree with that as well
... I don't see why this group should offer differences
... should not matter

Ivan: connection comes and goes

Markus: Let's see...
... only thing I wanted to ask about in the deliverables section is the contributions to the tesing efforts
... sounds like it is going to be difficult in some cases; maybe that is not an issue
... let's say for example
... in describing what the digpub industry needs in pagination in CSS
... primarily is use cases and functional requirements for pagination
... maybe stratified in feature set
... but there will be an overall declarative use case that describes what is needed
... but no way to test for that because there is no syntax to use
... I think this is going to be quite common
... Just want to be clear
... that expecation is that we are not hard core test writers

Ivan: yes, that is to be done as part of the work of the group
... the issue here that I had in mind is slightly different
... Let's forget about the case when there is a specification that has to be developed
... and take case when specification that is already there
... take CSS example on text declaration
... which as I scan through has detailed specifications on underlines in other langages
... this has to be thoroughly tested
... more than others
... therefore there are some corner or special cases

<Bert> CR of CSS Text Decoration

Ivan: that this group knows more about how to test than the average browser manufacturers
... so this group can produce additional test cases that the browser manufacturer may not care about
... Bert and Peter, I am getting into your area, but hope what I am saying makes sense

Bert: yes, it does

Ivan: So group makes sure that the test environment is as thorough and exhaustive, taking care of specificities

Markus: again, two major steps
... would happen during the later phase when we start engaging with the other Working Groups
... we have 20 minutes left
... in terms of the charter, speeding up here
... you have seen the timelines
... are there any questions or remarks? Is it clear?
... Ok
... Let me ask you this
... Are there any questions or remarks on the charter as a whole that you would like to ask about?
... Moving on then
... Quickly about logistics
... Karen is kindly taking minutes
... but may be only meeting; in following meetings we will ask for volunteer scribes
... Madi and I would be grateful if you cannot scribe so we exclude you from the rotating scheme
... We'll have a page pointing to that list that we will rotate through
... Agendas and minutes will be collected from the Interest Group's home page
... the agenda will be published via email
... Minutes as always will be published through the W3C minuting system
... And we will collect the URLs of the agenda and published minutes and put them on the home page
... The chairs of course will publish agenda at least 24 hours in advance of meeting
... These will be draft agendas
... So if you have an agenda item to be discussed, please let us know a few days before meeting
... We'll try to get it in depending about how packed it is
... Anything else?

Thierry: no

Markus: For time being, we are intending to stay with the day and time we are on now
... If going forward group finds this problematic
... but for now, please reserve Tuesdays at 15:00UTC each week
... Emailing lists

<tmichel> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Main_Page

Markus: There are ones that the IG should be aware of

<tmichel> see mailing lists deatails

Markus: First one is the one where you got your agenda invite
... Also a second list
... which is not world visible
... agenda is readable by world but writable by IG members
... also one only for IG members
... and also a comment list that is world visible
... These are all available at the lists.w3.org site

Ivan: Pointers to the archives are all listed on the wiki page
... on right hand side

Markus: so the default list in short term is same email list as agenda
... next topic

<tmichel> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/

Markus: We have a face to-face meeting planned at the TPAC [Technical Plenary and Advisory Committee Meeting] in China

<tmichel> registration for TPAC now open

Markus: hopefully we can show early drafts of corpus of requirements that we are working on
... Thierry, Ivan should we say here
... express a recommendation about people getting here

Ivan: It's important to register to the meeting as soon as possible
... A lot of people will be there form different groups
... Thierry put TPAC page in the minutes
... also there is information about getting a visa to China
... so please register as soon as you can

Markus: thank you
... any questions about logistics, telcons, lists, F2F meetings?

@: how often are the telcons?

Jean: if we are not traveling internationally, will there be any options for remote attendance?

Ivan: we usually have possibility to dial into f2f meeting in Shenzhen
... we will know figures closer to meeting, but cannot change the time difference

Jean: clearly, midnight is midnight
... to whom should we contact if we cannot travel?

Ivan: If you don't register, you don't register
... action is needed for those who do come
... that may be a good idea to set up information for phone

Markus: in terms of group membership
... as I mentioned, there is work on-going with groups and co-chairs with stakeholders
... as that progresses
... no time to list all the names of organizations and people
... we would like to encourage you all to think about organizations and companies that you believe should be on this interest group
... If you come up with any, please contact us and the W3C staff reps and we'll discuss strategies to invite and get them to participate
... this is an historic opportunity for digital publishing industry to harmonize with W3C
... would not be good not to get the right people at the table
... let us know of anyone you think should join
... any questions about recruitment and membership
... Ok...work methodology
... there are many ways to gather corpus and use cases
... has been done many times in W3C before, so we are not expected to take a revolutionary new approach
... one of key things is having right stakeholders at the table
... risk that we may be understaffed in certain areas depending upon who joins group
... Second observation is that this is a huge field with many different aspects
... Likely we won't go through a single thread but multiple as we go through requirements gathering
... Some members here interested in pagination; others interested in metadata
... those are two communities with different expertise
... makes no sense to do in serial but rather in parallel fashion
... so we will need to devise way to do things simultaneously
... We may choose certain meetings for certain themes
... or we may have certain chunks for each meeting
... that remains to be seen
... based on where the largest number of stakeholders are doing work
... What we have been thinking about the corpus of requirements
... is an initial taxonomy
... of problem or issue areas that we should be filling in
... Layout would be one such category with pagination and int'l
... Metadata is another with publication level vs microdata
... and so on
... Idea is that the first thing this group does is to set out the first version of the problem areas
... and then from there on
... move into them and start to populate them with the requirements
... This is a way for us to provide structure to the work
... and to see where work is progressing and where it is not
... So if we see in October that work is not progressing in certain areas, then we can address it
... So proposal is that we work on that structure first
... and once we agree then we work on the functional requirements
... What do people think

<azaroth> +1

<SethSL> +! makes sense

<TomDN> sounds good

Markus: Perhaps we can produce first action for Markus and Madi to create a first strawman for the taxonomy on the wiki page

Ivan: Thierry, will you do that/

s/?

Thierry: an action for everybody?

<madi> Yes sounds good to me.

Markus: no, for Markus and Madi to create the strawman for the taxonomy

<tmichel> ACTION Madi to create the strawman for the taxonomy

<scribe> ACTION: Madi to create the strawman for the taxonomy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-dpub-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Create the strawman for the taxonomy [on Madi Solomon - due 2013-08-13].

<tmichel> ;-)

<tmichel> thanks Karen

Markus: It's not a catastrophe if we get it wrong at first, but we need a starting point and will take it from there
... great...we are approaching the top of the hour
... what is left?
... Are there any questions or remarks at this point?

<tmichel> ACTION: Markus to create the strawman for the taxonomy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-dpub-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Create the strawman for the taxonomy [on Markus Gylling - due 2013-08-13].

Markus: if not, we are done for the day
... thank you everyone, and talk to you in one week

<trc> bye now

<TomDN> bye