See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 01 August 2013
<scribe> Scribe: Olivier
<scribe> ScribeNick: olivier
<jernoble> Zakim: aaaa is me
re- agenda, the issues I was suggesting we tackle were actually https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17339 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17366 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17378
<chrislowis> shepazu: thanks.
chrislowis: convening
https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/open
chrislowis: just want to review actions
<gmandyam> +q
olivier: moving to close ACTION-59
gmandyam: agree
Close ACTION-59
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-59 Talk to webrtc chairs, see what their perspective is on web audio API.
chrislowis: wondering about ACTION-47
shepazu: there was a reply off
the record
... OpenAL was done in spirit of open source and
implementations distributed in LGPL
... most people involved at the time are now gone
chrislowis: do you think we need to take that any further?
shepazu: we'd need to refine
exactly what we are looking for from them
... maybe have a discussion about this at some
point
<scribe> ACTION: olivier to create a bugzilla issue to look into how web audio relates to openAL, whether we need to dig deeper re- IPR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/01-audio-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Create a bugzilla issue to look into how web audio relates to openAL, whether we need to dig deeper re- IPR [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-08-08].
Close ACTION-47
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-47 Reach out to OpenAL folks to get firm commitment on IP status of OpenAL..
chrislowis: looking at a group of action items from May related to OfflineAudioContext
ehsan: there is general agreement on what we want the API to look like
chrislowis: I think we can close these and track any detail on bugzilla
Close ACTION-61
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-61 Ask Ehsan to create a patch to the spec for the changes..
Close ACTION-62
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-62 Propose idea for OfflineAudioContext to list.
Close ACTION-63
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-63 Will reply to Chris's proposed changes to OfflineAudioContext with updated WebIDL..
ACTION-64 is still pending
olivier: explains https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17374
... will apply the patch to remove these sections if there is
no objection
ehsan: fine with that
<padenot> Zakim: ??P22 is me
chrislowis: will double-check with editor and go ahead
<chrislowis> padenot: I muted you, your line was very noisy.
<chrislowis> padenot: Add yourself to the queue if you'd like to speak.
<padenot> chrislowis: thanks, I have a sketchy setup here
<chrislowis> padenot: no problem.
olivier: wondering if we need more work on units
ehsan: would rather have crogers in this conversation
<gmandyam> +q
olivier: crogers on the record as saying he's ok with openal-inspired undefined unit
gmandyam: don't think openAL is
the best reference here
... I think we defined units for a lot of other web apis
... will write comment on irc too
chrislowis: want to add comment on bugzilla too
<gmandyam> OpenAL is not a good model for deciding when to specify unit measures. It is a native API, and developers many times make the assumption that there is variability in implementations (particularly for handheld devices).
<gmandyam> (cont.) Web developers will expect some level of consistency among implementations.
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17339
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17366
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17378
chrislowis: let's look at
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17339
- De-zippering is not defined
... spec doesn't go far enough defining dezippering
... ehsan, any comment on how you've interpreted that in
implementation
ehsan: spec mentions smoothing
for gain nodes, [scribe missed]
... would have like to exactly how to implement this for each
type of parameter
... I believe that we don't do any dezippering in gain
node
... it wasn't clear what we should be doing
... for delaynode, I think I looked at webkit source, ended up
using similar value but think it should be in the
spec
<scribe> ACTION: chrislowis to look into what dezippering in webkit was based on [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/01-audio-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Look into what dezippering in webkit was based on [on Chris Lowis - due 2013-08-08].
chrislowis: I will look at
whether there is an accepted precedent or reference literature
we can point to
... don't think this was added empirically for webkit, I'll try
and find out what that is
... looking at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17366
- Oscillator types are not defined
... I don't think the definition is controversial
... and phase starts at 0 at time 0
ehsan: I may be lacking necessary
background
... finding the definition hard to understand
... don't think the definitions are very controversial
... but there could be different interpretations for phase
chrislowis: we could say in spec
that the implementation should support this kind of wave
forms
... but how to generate them isn't really a solved
problem
... I know the way webkit does is quite standard and
complicated in how it avoids aliasing
... should we define mathematica ideal?
ehsan: not sure where we should
draw the line
... would prefer a spec that tries to define exactly the
outcome
... that's my general preference but I understand this may not
be ideal for audio
... oscillatornode is the most underspecified node in the
spec
... it has made it difficult to implement
<gmandyam> +q
olivier: will make it a high priority in bugzilla... don't have a perfect solution either
gmandyam: in practice there will
be cases where waveform diverges from mathematical
definition
... should we add some language such as "ideally"
... so that developers don't expect a perfect level of
precision
chrislowis: reminds me of discussion about biquadfilternode, we found this reference doc which would be a possible reference guide for implementors
shepazu: want to share experience
with SVG
... very similar situation with graphics experts defining the
spec and use conventions from the industry
... second wave of implementors were not experts in graphics
and so we had very similar pain points with things left
undefined
... made it hard to create interoperable implementations
... web developers were very unsatisfied with variations in
implementations
... and I suspect that they would find it equally unsatisfied
with audio rendering
... we should keep in mind what expectations are
... so I think more definitions could be helpful to match
developer expectations
chrislowis: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17378 - AudioBufferSourceNode.playbackRate not strictly defined
ehsan: right now the way
implementation work is that negative playback rate are
interpreted as playing backward
... there are a number of details of how resampling is
achieved
chrislowis: is this an urgent or important one to solve?
ehsan: there is at least one demo
relying on it
... this is definitely a concept that has a correspondence in
the real world
chrislowis: the question of how we handle resampling will come up again
<Zakim> olivier, you wanted to suggest a patch at least defining effect of negative values
<ehsan> olivier: we seem to have lost you
<ehsan> chrislowis: olivier: are you on the call?
<chrislowis> ehsan: seems like it's at your end?
<ehsan> could be
<ehsan> let me redial in
chrislowis: will put a call out on the ML to ask for a volunteer to suggest patch for 17378
chrislowis: Any Other Business?™
olivier: no objection for next meeting in 2 weeks?
[no objection]
chrislowis: meeting adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Olivier Inferring ScribeNick: olivier Found ScribeNick: olivier Default Present: +1.408.772.aaaa, jernoble, gmandyam\, chrislowis, olivier, ehsan, Doug_Schepers, jussi, [Mozilla] Present: chrislowis olivier shepazu gmandyam jernoble ehsan jussi Regrets: Chris Wilson Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/0365.html Found Date: 01 Aug 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/01-audio-minutes.html People with action items: chrislowis olivier[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]