<MichaelC> trackbot, associate this channel with #wai-wcag

<trackbot> Associated this channel with #wai-wcag.

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130502tfaria/results

<scribe> scribe:Loretta

Introductions all around.

James: suggest putting this in the not-needed-for-first-release category
... focus on more important techniques for first release

<adam_solomon> great

Michael: changing category to "Techniques, Postponed" and moving this technique there.
... updating status to capture pointer to these survey comments.

Using WAI-ARIA range attributes...

James editing description of how native spinbuttons work , for example 1.

Discussion of button mark-up including role=presentation and alt attribute.

Michael suggests omitting alt attribute.

James suggests alt="" and removing role presentation.

James: Who can activate these buttons?

Michael: there is no input field, so screen reader users will need to use buttons.

James: users should use up and down arrow keys.

Paul: will users know that?

Loretta: should we be using the Open Ajax example? Sounds like there are issues.

Should the user be able to type in the value? Or only up and down arrow keys.

Michael: something needs to change.
... enabling the user to type a value isn't a requirement for a spinbutton, but do we want to show an example that doesn't do this?

Discussion of proposed changes....

Screen reader user can't use buttons, must use arrow keys.

Paul: trying a spin button with VoiceOver Utility app, Native control supports focus on control, not individual up and down buttons.

Michael: what is the point of the technique? range attributes
... if want to talk about minimizing errors, it is a very different technique.
... need to talk about why to use attributes from a WCAG perspective.

proposal: drop error usage of range attributes for later (only advisory anyway).

James: looking for better example of an aria spinbutton

paul: jquery mobile range sliders? they don't have up down buttons.

Loretta: alternative is that we write our own live example. But I can't do that.
... I'm leary of techniques for complete widgets.

James: the ARIA best practices document is looking for a new home.

Loretta: and I worry about whether, by providing one sample implementation of a widget, people conclude that is the only acceptable implementation.
... I'm fine with moving this to postponed. But because scripting is so intrinsic to the use of ARIA, I think this issue will keep recurring.

Paul: seems like we should make our own example.

James: yes, if we have the time.
... can we host our own example at W3C?

Michael: yes, we already do this for other techniques.

Jamse: can we use libraries like jquery?

James: who has the code expertise to write their own live examples?
... yes

Paul: maybe

Adam: I thought we didn't want to put all the details into the technique. Are we changing that?

James: I think our scripting would be simpler than open ajax.

Loretta: I still think that we need a complete live example, but only want to include the relevant snippets in the technique.

James: for this example, we should include the javascript for changing the value
... Detlev could probably also write live examples.
... need a strategy meeting for live examples. will put on the agenda for next week.
... we will move this technique to the postponed section of the wiki

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA

<jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA

Agenda item: which SC does active-descendant meet?

Adam: does active-descendant apply to 2.1.1?
... take example of combo-box.
... as you navigate through the list, the active-descendant is changing.

James: it is letting a screen reader know where the focus is, but it isn't letting the keyboard user know.

If you take out active-descendant, the combobox will still work for the keyboard user.

Adam: because of the scripting?

James: right.
... and that is why we concluded that this was a 4.1.2 technique.

Adam: of course active-descendant isn't the true focus.

James: right, but it communicates it to the screen reader.
... additional complication: CSS4 (not yet available in any browser) has a new feature that lets you meet focus-visible with active-descendant.
... but this is in the future; spec'd but not in last call and not implemented anywhere yet. But it will be cool when it works.

Adam: can we conclude that active-descendant will only be for 4.1.2

James, Loretta, Paul: yes

Adam: do we wnat to take out the open ajax example? Ar we talking about removing all of them?

James: we don't have to take out all open ajax examples, only when we think they are confusing things (or if we can write our own really quickly)

Adam: I will tentatively leave the examples in, and the group can review whether they are suitable when the technique is ready for review.

James: this example seems less controversial.

Next week's agenda: finish this survey, handle the next survey, and discuss providing live examples.

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Loretta
Inferring ScribeNick: Loretta
Default Present: James_Nurthen, Paul_Adam, Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Adam_Solomon
Present: James_Nurthen Paul_Adam Cooper Loretta_Guarino_Reid Adam_Solomon
Regrets: Marc_Johlic Detlev_Fischer
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0036.html
Got date from IRC log name: 02 May 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-techs-tf-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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