W3C

- DRAFT -

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

04 Apr 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Eric, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, sharper
Regrets
kelly, Jan
Chair
JimAllan, KellyFord
Scribe
jallan

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 04 April 2013

<allanj> title: UAWG telecon 4 April 2013

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0041.html

<allanj> Discussion of new rendering engines: Blink, Servo. and industry realignment. and existing engines...webkit, IE, etc.

zakin, agenda?

Conformance requirements for platform - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/

Conformance survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components

Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0041.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0004.html

Conformance requirements for platform - finish

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0004.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html

GL: discussing item 6 - host web browser - not numbered

EH: May not be a correct transcription from the editors versions - should be a separate item.
... thinks OS etc is already covered under #2

KP: which parts are new - which old - first 'bunch the same' lets not look at these

GL: different from what JR had - this new one in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html is now confusing.

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130328/MasterUAAG20130404.html#conformance-req-components

EH: - for each software component list name, manufacturer, version, config changes.

- more 'thinking on the hoof'

EH: discussion re zero software platform - ?

SH: is firmware not software?

EH/GL: reconfirms - software component - elaborate where it affects the browser examples should be OS, other Software environments, and other catch all - name, manufacturer, version, config changes

<allanj> 2. Version of key software components (e.g., operating system, 'host' web browser, other software environment)

GL: channeling JR (who isn't here) re best presentation method - list or paragraph

JA: we may be loosing stuff as erics comes from the draft while we have minutes from last week not yet integrated...

<Greg> This was Jan's proposal in email (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0087.html):

<Greg> Platform: Provide relevant information regarding the software and/or hardware platform(s) on which the user agent depends for conformance. This information may include:

<Greg> - hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2")

<Greg> - operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2)

<Greg> - other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+)

<Greg> - "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+)

JA: list seem prescriptive - paragraph don't - EH tends to agree

KP - likes Jans list

<Greg> By contrast, here's the version from Greg, Kim and Eric that Jan suggested replacing with the above:

<Greg> 8. Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser, and...

<Greg> ...Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g. minimum screen...

<Greg> ...size, audio output).

GL: now moving to editorial - should we not delegate to the editors - as long as we can make sure no technical errors introduced into it.
... lets not do this on the conference call...

<allanj> ACTION: jeanne to add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-812 - Add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].

EH: comment on platform hardware - indicated an intention that it is mandatory to list limitations or hardware - the platforms would be option - name manufacturer hardware number (version etc). All I was going to list was at the end of #2 '(optional)'

GL: now seems to be more prominent than platform software.

EH: hardware is mandatory - software may not be.

SH: as a say - firmware?

EH: should be able to say more than the minimum.

JS: seems like we are suggesting they list that they tested this on a 'Dell' with windows 8

EH: only manditory listing hardware limitations - other would be optional.

JS: so #2 would be optional

EH: yes

<jeanne> 6.1.2 (Optional) Other information about the platform hardware (e.g., name and manufacturer and version number of the hardware components)

GL: though the other version has clearer on this point

EH: happy to change

<jeanne> 6.a.1 Key hardware limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device [What about input devices]).

<jeanne> 6.a.1 Key hardware limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device, any input hardware restrictions).

<allanj> 6.a.2 Other optional information about the platform hardware (e.g., name and manufacturer and version number of the hardware components)

RESOLUTION: Allow editors (or their delegates) to make changes and present changes - to all before 7 - as they see fit, back to the group.

Point 7 of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130328/MasterUAAG20130404.html#conformance-req-components

Discussing preposition for #7 as described in new KP/JS work above - against EH version.

EH: maybe impossible to specify the elements that are not included in the set.

GL: gives example of including HTML5 and excluding (say) MathML Exemplar Only

EH: was not clear to me - burdomsome requirement to describe what they don't support

<Greg> I thought the idea is that they list the web technologies they support, and identify which are supported conforming and which are supported non-conforming.

<jeanne> In the case of video codex, that it would be very difficult to list what codexes are not accessible.

EH: thought that people would specify what they where relaying on to meet conformance

<Greg> Are video codices "web technologies"?

SH: at least one technology has to be listed in the conformance claim right...?

EH: could try and refine what I was trying to get at in my edits
... the content technologies may not be relied upon to meet the claim.

GL: Discussion re clarification of this.

SH Obviously if this isn't clear to us - it wont be to others...

<Greg> The wording in the editor's draft seems clear to me...

s/fri/fyi

EH/GL: Still trying to understand each other.

RESOLUTION: EH to try to make this more explicit and clarify the points.

Action Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes'

<trackbot> Error finding 'Eric_Hansen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<allanj> original: Declarations: For each success criterion: A declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied; or a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not.

<allanj> proposed: Declarations: Provide, for each success criterion, a declaration of either (a) whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or (b) a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not. Refer to Note ABC for further information on determining which success criteria may not be applicable.

<scribe> ACTION: 'member:Eric_Hansen' to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Eric_Hansen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<allanj> ACTION: Eric to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-813 - 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [on Eric Hansen - due 2013-04-11].

Comment location: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html

<allanj> comment from Eric: note ABC Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a...

<allanj> ...hosting web browser, and Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g

<allanj> . minimum screen size, audio output).

EH removing #8 from eric's document

RESOLUTION: Edits to be made

conformance survey

Conformance survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components

Optional Components of an UAAG 2.0 Conformance Claim

<scribe> Done

"Progress Towards Conformance" Statement

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results#xq12

http://goo.gl/fnAO9

3-happy / 2 - changes / 1 neutral

Jan says Neutral - In ATAG, the vendors said they wouldn't use such a thing.

as legal people would never permit it

Not include? All concure

RESOLUTION: Delete "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-814 - Remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].

Any new section proposed

JS: proposes - Partial Conformance

two conditions to address use cases 6 (extensions) and 8 (platform restrictions) Suggest Jan's original partial conformance proposal for extensions and platforms. (Not the example for full browsers with missing SC.)

Eric Hansen - makes propositions but these have been covered and addressed (JA)

EH: would suggest that as I drafted the other piece - can people look at this - see if anything should be added from the list here to clarify the point in #7/#8

<allanj> scribe: jallan

<allanj> js: partial conformance - two conditions to address use cases 6 (extensions) and 8 (platform restrictions) - see Jan's proposal.

<allanj> ACTION: jallan to revisit partial conformance for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-815 - Revisit partial conformance for next week [on Jim Allan - due 2013-04-11].

<allanj> close item 2

<allanj> open item 3

<allanj> ACTION: jeanne to make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-816 - Make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: 'member:Eric_Hansen' to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Eric to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jallan to revisit partial conformance for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action05]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-04-04 18:28:46 $

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Default Present: Eric, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, sharper
Present: Eric Jeanne Jim_Allan Greg_Lowney Kim_Patch sharper
Regrets: kelly Jan
Found Date: 04 Apr 2013
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