W3C

- DRAFT -

MLW-LT WG

20 Mar 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
omstefanov, felix, philr, Karl, Ankit, Marcis, Giuseppe, dF, Yves, Jirka, chriLi, Milan, pnietoca, leroy, Clemens, mdelolmo
Regrets
jörg, naoto, dave, dom, arle, pedro
Chair
felix
Scribe
Marcis

Contents


<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0137.html

Short Rome / Luxembourg celebration

Felix: successful week, thx to everyone
... Looking forward to the rest of project

Philr: did reviewers give formal feedback?

Felix: No
... will think by April what we do during the rest of the project/last workshop

Felix ... it is difficult to hear you

dF: call time - wants to stick to UTC because of Summer Time

<dF> I do not want to stick to UTC, in fact I say its an issue, because the same UTC time means something else for US after last Sunday and will mean something else after Europe changes to summer time within a couple of weeks..

Standoff and script

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0136.html

Felix: wants to close the issue

philr: Work would be needed to change test samples (if changes would be made)

Felix: Agrees to philr

Pablo: Agrees
... Cons: have to change implementation

Felix: wants not to change anything

XLIFF mapping

Felix: General thought: this and other documents like ITS onthologies do not ask for changes in the spec,
... wants to concentrate on finishing the spec.

<fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2013/03/its-xliff

Felix: summary: it is about a separate namespace for ITS in XLIFF

<Yves_> XLIFF mapping may affect spec: e.g. do we need a local its:domain and its:resourceRef? (we have to use extensions in XLIFF for those)

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0142.html

Felix: summary: some stability for mapping is needed

<Yves_> can't speak sorry

Felix: sees that Yves has some comments

philr: does not know the tech. to comments

<Yves_> there is no local markup for domain but it look like we need one in XLIFF. Like David says

dF: it might be useful (to have a separate namespace)
... maybe local mark-up is needed

<Yves_> this is not link to namespace

Felix: is there need for local mark-up in XLIFF?

We do annotate locally in XLIFF ...

(terms)

<Yves_> XLIFF simply shows that some vocabularies don't have a local way to define a domain

dF: Dave is not here, he worked on RDF mapping. Mapping on XLIFF may be more general

Felix: XLIFF may benefit from local markup

<Yves_> I can post an email on this

philr: needs a concrete example

<Yves_> no neeed for action item

<Yves_> sure

<philr> Thanks, Yves

<Yves_> so far domain and resref

Felix: open issues in ITS spec
... not convinced that spec would be broken if changes would be added (with respect to XLIFF)
... Hopes that we can have an agreement on this
... Hopes that we can focus on closing issues
... Wants to follow critical mass discussions

philr: concern: XLIFF is unstable (in respect to ITS)
... wants stability

dF: it is minor
... there are no roadblocks
... there is extensibility (in the new XLIFF spec)
... have basic stability
... thinks (and discussed with Dave and Felix in Rome) that we can return to this later

philr: asks about a sample XLIFF with ITS markup

dF: there is a superXLIFF file
... Yves generated also test files
... There is a collection on the Test Suite
... on GitHub
... there are usable examples
... feel free to contact Dave, Yves and dF on XLIFF questions

Felix: thanks dF

dF: on previous topic: we need to move the spec out of last call, it is more critical

philr: ok, if there are examples on GitHub
... are there separate calls on XLIFF?

dF: not now

disambiguation + term

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0129.html

Felix: Disambiguation & term

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html

Felix: Christian asks if everyone is ok with the outcome

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0260.html

Felix: there are examples ^^^
... Change of one paragraph, see "How about re-formulating like this: "

Felix: Christian do you have something to add?

Christian: no

Felix: proposes to close the issue with an action item for Christian to edit the spec

Christian: agrees

<fsasaki> ACTION: christian to make the edit for issue-68 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-461 - Make the edit for issue-68 [on Christian Lieske - due 2013-03-27].

need for "saying that something is not a locale"

Felix: From Yves
... On Locale Filter

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0001.html

Felix: It is not possible currently to say to exclude a locale

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0002.html

Felix: But it is an important use case

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0003.html

Felix: Different from what we had before
... Difference is not only 2 attributes, but a possibility to exclude locales A B C and include X Y Z

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Mar/0004.html

Felix: It may have drawbacks to have such flexibility, see ambiguity below:

<fsasaki> <p its-locale-filter-list="en" its-locale-exclude-list="*-CA">An English message not shown to Canadians</p>

Felix: there may be contradictions
... Include and exclude lists may overlap
... Would people be happy reinstalling the type attribute?

<Yves_> I would be ok for the type attribute.

dF: question: the subject says that the e-mail should be marked with an issue number

<fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/121

dF: it is not associated with last call comments?

Felix: it is - 1231
... 121

<fsasaki> s/1213/121/

<Yves_> sure

Felix: Yves - would you mind reinstalling the type attribute?

<fsasaki> ACTION: yves to re-install type attribute for locale filter see issue-121 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-462 - Re-install type attribute for locale filter see issue-121 [on Yves Savourel - due 2013-03-27].

HTML default behaviour

Felix: one of the topics, which suffered from the activities in the last weeks.
... haven't had a discussion on this one
... summary: should this be a default for implementations that do not use global rules

<fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085

Felix: how should it be aligned to the HTML5 spec
... Changes are made to the HTML5 spec

<fsasaki> http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7744&to=7745

<fsasaki> <p>The following attributes are <dfn>translatable attributes</dfn>:</p>

<fsasaki> + <p>When an element is in the <dfn>translate-enabled</dfn> state, the element's <span>translatable + attributes</span> and the values of its <code>Text</code> node children are to be translated when + the page is localized.</p>

Felix: the change (^^^); you see that there is a list of attributes. One difficult aspect for ITS is that there is an interdependency between elements and attributes
... how to reflect the interdependency from HTML5 to ITS?
... any comments?
... no comments
... thinks this topic is around for a long time. We need to resolve this somehow.
... this is a showstopper for leaving last call
... encourages people to think about this

Karl: behaviour is different between implementations (??)

Felix: everyone who is using browser engines will have this issue
... sounds like for Karl it would be useful to rely on HTML5 spec

Karl: not sure about this

Felix: could try to convince the ones who changed the spec to remove the interdependency between attributes and elements

Karl: Chrome does not yet support http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7744&to=7745
... Not sure whether this will be implemented
... sees why the HTML5 editors added this

Felix: any thoughts on how to resolve the difference in the approaches

Karl: not sure
... Those who use XML and HTML will have an issue

Jirka: what is the problem?

Felix: different semantics of its:translate

Jirka: some attributes are translatable on certain elements?

Felix: no
... if certain elements are translatable, some attributes are translatable as well
... and vice versa

Jirka: yes, but it is possible to create ITS rules that behave similarly

Karl: the question is on the list of defaults that we now have to create

Felix: yes
... asks Karl to bring up the e-mail exchange again

Karl: after the call will do that

Felix: thx

aob

Felix: next week 1PM UTC

Karl: only Wednesday

Felix: yes
... need also additional calls for editing

<fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/BledMay2013

Felix: Tadej created a page for Bled F2F

<fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/BledMay2013#Participants

Felix: asks everyone to register as remote even if they do not plan to come

Karl: but there is no agenda?

Felix: not yet
... Test Suite coverage may fluctuate because of changes in the spec
... anything else for today?
... thx for today

bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: christian to make the edit for issue-68 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: yves to re-install type attribute for locale filter see issue-121 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-03-20 14:49:41 $