See also: IRC log
<Guus> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Date: 27 February 2013
<trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 27 February 2013
<AndyS> Partial regrets - I can only attend for about 45 mins.
<scribe> scribe: AZ
gavinc_: there should be a page
about the CR
... before Turtle being published we agreed to produce a
document about thinigs done in Last Call?
Guus: we can close the comments
by internalization group
... Ivan proposed to write a page like the OWL page
<PatH> having a little trouble calling in, working on it.
sandro: in RDF, documents are pretty much self standing
<gkellogg> Turtle, TriG, and N-Triples would seem to be more closely related.
Guus: let us archive all comments being done since CR
<gavinc_> Yeah, my thoughts as well gkellogg
<gavinc_> given I have to update all three of those
<ivan> ivan, unmute me
gavinc_: I'll finish a page about
the comments
... we have to publish the test cases
<AndyS> +1 to gkellogg -- and NQuads.
sandro: they should be linked from the document
<gkellogg> Conformance Report: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/reports/index.html
<PatH> looks like I am going
to have to be restricted to IRC until my phone carrier comes
back :-(
...: and we have to list the implementations
<pfps> shouldn't we note this error and fix it at REC?
AndyS: their could be a formal
publication of the test suite
... W3C would use the test suite licence
(sorry did not get the end)
<sandro> google brings me to http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Test_Suite
<AndyS> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-license.html
AndyS: they are not complaininng
of tests suite licence, but they complain about the Apacche
Licence attached to it
... I could change this as a copywriter
<gavinc_> I'd say the main issue is the lack of publication of the test suite
sandro: the page about test suite
should have link to the suite
... I can update the submission to point to the the suite
<Guus> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/file/default/rdf-turtle/tests-ttl
Guus: in the extension request the link to test suite was the one posted
<gkellogg> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/reports/index.html
Guus: who would like to take an action to do this
gavinc: I can do this
... I can also resolve the licence issue
... we can set up a mercurial directory and put a tag there
AndyS: sandro, could you check the W3C process for the test suite
<gkellogg> List of dajobe's current Turtle tests, including test-31 through test-38: https://github.com/dajobe/raptor/tree/master/tests/turtle
<sandro> ACTION: sandro to learn about the w3c test suite license [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/27-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-232 - Learn about the w3c test suite license [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-03-06].
<Guus> ACTION Gavin to publish the consolidated test suite
<trackbot> Created ACTION-233 - Publish the consolidated test suite [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-03-06].
gavinc: all tests are under W3C license and 3-clause BSD licence
<gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases
<AndyS> ??? == W3C test suite license
<gavinc> https://github.com/dajobe/raptor/blob/master/tests/turtle/test-30.ttl
<gavinc> btw #turtle exists ;)
<AndyS> gregg - there was renumbering old 30 is new 27 and is there
Guus: there are several emails on
the first editor's draft for semantics
... from pfps and Path
<gkellogg> andys: cool, thanks
<AndyS> gregg - blame automated test suite writing.
PatH: I think all the issues can be resolved wihtout spending much telecon time
pfps: we have to resovle the issues on ill-typed literals do not denote anymore
<pfps> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Feb/0233.html
PatH: it's a substantial change to semantics and made in reaction to Richard's request
<ericP> oops, looks like i missed the test suite topic
<ericP> can anyone confirm/deny that?
PatH: who believe that a graph
that has ill-typed literals should not be consistent
... the proposal makes all triples with an ill-typed literal
false
<pfps> this change has been discussed extensively in the past, as well
PatH: I haven't find arguments really against it
<Guus> PROPOSE: I propose closing Issue 109 as described by Pat back in November in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0195.html The proposal is, roughly, to make ill-typed literals not denote anything, which (due to the very picky details of the wording of the rest of the semantics) means that any triple with an ill-typed literal is false (and not ill-typed itself, which you might have thought).
<pfps> +1
+1
<PatH> +1
<TallTed> +1
<yvesr> +1
<Souri> +1
<ivan> +1
<pfps> +0.999999
<Guus> +1
<gkellogg> +1
<sandro> +1
<markus> +1
<Arnaud> 0
<Guus> RESOLVED: propose closing Issue 109 as described by Pat back in November in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0195.html The proposal is, roughly, to make ill-typed literals not denote anything, which (due to the very picky details of the wording of the rest of the semantics) means that any triple with an ill-typed literal is false (and not ill-typed itself, which you might have thought).
pfps: which datatypes are required in RDF implementation
<gavinc> +1 to RDF XMLLiteral being optional... I swear we resolved that?
<sandro> +1 I think so, too.
<gavinc> ... are you SURE we don't?
pfps: in particular XMLLiteral?
<gavinc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0198.html
<sandro> issue-13?
<trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- closed
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/13
pfps: can someone fix the "list of resolutions"
<gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/closed is a good place to start looking for resolutions :)
gavinc: HTML is optional too (ISSUE 33)
<gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/63
pfps the last issue is rdf:langString
PatH: I think the idea was a datatype with empty lexical-to-value mapping
<gavinc> Also, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0071.html
PatH: the goal is to have a type for all literals but not force rdf:langString to be a proper datatype
pfps: this should be fixed in Concepts
<gavinc> This is related to ISSUE-94
<gavinc> ISSUE-94?
<trackbot> ISSUE-94 -- Definition of literals does not include language-tagged strings properly -- closed
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/94
pfps: everything else in the
semantics can be seen just as bugs
... it just requires minor edits to make it a FPWD
Guus: <can't hear>
<Guus> reviews can be done befpre html edits
<Guus> review volunteers? at least two needed
<pfps> can't be me
<pfps> I suggest Richard, even though he is not on the call - he cares about this
Guus: we need reviewers for the document, even before the edits
AZ: I can review it
pfps: I would like Richard to do it
<Guus> ACTION Guus to ask Richard to review Semantics
<trackbot> Created ACTION-234 - Ask Richard to review Semantics [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-03-06].
PatH: there is a section that is missing about the inference rules
<pfps> the inference rules are informative, not normative
ivan: what's going on with the
rules?
... in which document do they go
PatH: we can put the rules in an informative section in Semantics
<pfps> I vote for fewer documents
<pfps> why are the rules needed for concepts?
ACTION AZ to review RDF 1.1 Semantics
<trackbot> Created ACTION-235 - Review RDF 1.1 Semantics [on Antoine Zimmermann - due 2013-03-06].
Guus: we really need to go to LC
for Concepts
... for this we need a FPWD for Semantics
ivan: our extension request said we would have Concepts in LC by 1st march
PatH: I can do the changes before next telecon
Guus: in the mean time we can talk about Concepts to prepare it for LC
<Guus> Reviewing period Semantics draft: 6-13 Mar
PatH: there is a debate about
D-entailemnt whether D should be seen as a datatype map
... I see a solution that requires a small change to RDF
Concepts
Guus: let us get this to the agenda of next week
pfps: I believe Pat's solution is not viable
PatH: I know how to fix this, I have to make it more precise
+1 pfps
<pfps> my problem is with a normative part of RDF Semantics referring to "web conventions"
Guus: there is an issue on bnode definition
PatH: Concepts sould define the
notion of scope
... scope of bnodes
<people looking in the ML archives>
<Guus> ACTION Guus put spec of scope bnodes in Concepts on agenda for 6 Mar
<trackbot> Created ACTION-236 - Put spec of scope bnodes in Concepts on agenda for 6 Mar [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-03-06].
<pfps> I can review Concepts, but I will reiterate my concerns that have not yet been addressed.
Guus: we need reviewers for the LC draft
<pfps> There has been push back on some of them.
I can review too, to be sure my concerns have been addressed
<PatH> i can review concepts.
<SteveH> I'll be on vacation
<Guus> Peter and Ted are reviewer candidates
Guus: we must find reviewers for this one too
<Guus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Feb/0189.html
PatH: I'll volunteer
sandro: I'll volunteer too
PatH: in fact, if it's now, I'll have to withdraw sorry
Guus: let us ask AndyS if he'd like to revieww it
<Guus> ACTION Guus to ask Andy to review JSPN-LD syntax doc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-237 - Ask Andy to review JSON-LD syntax doc [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-03-06].
gkellogg: we have work to do on the API
bye
<markus> bye
<Guus> trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/???/3-clause BSD/ Succeeded: s/greeg/gregg/ Succeeded: s/63/33/ Succeeded: s/33/63/ Succeeded: s/.../pfps/ Succeeded: s/JSPN-LD/JSON-LD/ Found Scribe: AZ Inferring ScribeNick: AZ Default Present: +1.408.530.aaaa, Guus, pfps, gkellogg, SteveH, TallTed, yvesr, GavinC, +081165aabb, AZ, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud, markus, Sandro, Souri, PatH Present: +1.408.530.aaaa Guus pfps gkellogg SteveH TallTed yvesr GavinC +081165aabb AZ AndyS Ivan Arnaud markus Sandro Souri PatH WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 27 Feb 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/02/27-rdf-wg-minutes.html People with action items: sandro[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]