See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 22 February 2013
<scribe> Scribe: Sharron
Shawn: Wanted to check in, make sure folks had seen the updated image. We are starting to use it but may update with color. I personally like it in black and white.
AnnaBelle: I do too but maybe just gotten used to it.
Shawn: Thanks to Emmanuelle for noticing that we had omitted keyboard access. Intersting that she had not found the omissin in the text, but noticed from the illustratin.
Bim: Is the page being checked on
... the page content seems to floatup. Perhaps that is where it is meant to be?
Shawn: If anyone has suggestions
please send along. Indie UI has both events and user context.
Before publication, would be great to have illustration on that
... will keep you posted on progress so we can be sure that people understand both are important.
Shawn: I hope that everyone saw
on the WAI-IG list the announcement of publication of the
Training Resource Suite.
... Jennifer pointed out that we had been considering how to include accessiiblity in their course and promotion of that Suite. Won't shift group focus to that but wanted it to be at the back of everyone's mind. And perhaps re-look at using BAD for teaching.
... other thing is WCAG-EM which we considered when we were together in Lyon.
... updated working draft will be announced next week at CSUN. Comments will be due by 33 March.
... we have talked for years about Application Notes - for example, How to Make Acessible Tables, How to...Forms, etc. Bim is working on Notes. Eo will review them as they will be EO documents.
... they are deliverables for our WG so we will be reviewing and approving.
Bim: Yes, that is my understanding as well. This is all part of EO deliverables.
Shawn: The Notes are based on EO discussions from the past.
<shawn> [Draft] Analysis for "Application Notes" http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-app-notes
Bim: I am basing my work on these.
Shawn: Any questions or comments on upcoming work?
Shawn: Reminder it is a
conformance evaluation ,methodology that the Task Force is
collaborating with WCAG-WG to develop.
... we had previously drafted an introduction. The plan is to replace the old Conformance Evaluation page with this Overview.
... WCAG-EM got delayed and so now that we are coming up on an announcement next week, the question is do we publish WCAG-EM without an Overview, or do we put this in place and continue to refine it?
... the question is "Is EO comfortable with replacing the current Conformance Evaluation with this Overview?"
Sharron: "general idea" in second paragraph needs to be racheted even further down.
Bim: As an overview I think it is good, gives the right level of informaiton.
Jennifer: It works for me
<LiamM> Good to go, tweak later.
AnnaBelle: I don't enough about what it is replacing, it seems fine.
Sharron: Yes, I am comfortabel replacing the old page
Shawn: The old Preliminary Review page is still in place. We are not yet ready to replace it with the Easy Checks, but one possibility is to add a prominant note that we are in process of revision and point to the WAI page Draft that is now in the WAI pages (not the wiki)e
Bim: Yes, to link from new work to something so outdated would be a mistake without the note.
old Conformance Eval page with new WCAG-EM
... On old PreLim Evaluation page add prominant note linking to current Draft of Easy Checks.
Shawn: Let's take this to the next topic
Shawn: Reminder to think about
what kind of work is best for us to do there in person with
longer periods of time. Good opportunity for brainstorming.
What are your ideas for geenral things to get done at the
... On Tuesday we will announce WCAG-EM updated working draft. Do we work on the Overview or place the draft as is with the understanding that we can wordsmith later on?
Sharron: Might want to take one
final look before publication.
... or maybe not -?-
Shawn: We can put it on the agenda for a short period and just make sure it is OK
Jennifer: I support that.
Shawn: OK what else should we work on at the F2F? (see agenda for the list)
<shawn> Sharron: Participating in WAI is really important
<shawn> also ties into a lot of other work
<shawn> we also need to get back to outreach to the community
Sharron: WAI-participation and all that it relates to
Shawn: Does that seem like a good brunch discussion?
Jennifer: I was thinking along that line as well.
AnnaBelle: I get excited about the potential of working on the Web Platform dcs
Jennifer: I am not sure how to do
it, see a lot of momentum building around that and see a real
importance to finding a way to incorporate our work into
... it would be really good for us to be part of that momentum
Shawn: There was tremendous buzz around the release, is it continuing?
Jennifer: Yes, there are a series of "sprints" all around the world. Creates buzz each time.
AnnaBelle: I see mentions in the blogosphere and always think I would like to be more involved.
Jennifer: It could be a quick logistical thing: Go through Action Items and close them or re-assign to others or something. In 15 or 20 minutes all together, we could clear them up, update, or re-assign.
Sharron: Great idea!
Jennifer: I saw we could close quite a few and give us the sense of accomplishment
Shawn: Sjarron, I closed one of your items.
Jennifer: Remember the doc for User Requirements for media, I don't know where the group (Protocols and Formats) is on that one, but I would be happy to work on it some more.
Shawn: Latest expectation is to
get to it in Q2
... it is the group that develops all W3C specifications to ensure that they include accessiiblity
... we might want to link to that in the Easy Checks
Jennifer: Yes, that occured to me when reviewing the Easy Checks
<shawn> editor's draft <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/>
<scribe> ACTION: Shawn to contact PF to ensure that EO reviews User Requirements for Media again before it gets published [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-274 - Contact PF to ensure that EO reviews User Requirements for Media again before it gets published [on Shawn Henry - due 2013-03-01].
Jennifer: And let's figure out
how I can help with this.
... So as it is now, I don't think we should link to it. But we should not forget to link to it down the road as it is improved.
Shawn: Agreed. OK, what other possibilities for F2F?
Sharron: Don't we have decisions
to make beyond wordsmithing on the Easy Checks?
... are you saying that everything currently in the wiki will be on the WAI page next week for the User testing?
... becasue if not, how will we do the user testing?
Shawn: Let's look at that
... in the meantime, is there anything else we should do at the F2F?
<shawn> Eval main page <http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/>
Shawn: Good to spend time on WCAG-EM review just to get on the same page about expectations?
Sharron: Seems reasonable, but not a lot of time needed?
Shawn: Yes and depending on where
we go with Easy Checks we may/may not have much time to
... I will draft an agenda with the understanding that we can change on the fly as needed.
<shawn> WAI page with some topics: <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/checks>
<shawn> wiki page with other topics: <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_Accessibility_Preliminary_Evaluation>
Shawn: As of now, the WAI page with Easy Checks includes page tiles, images and headings. In wiki, we still have many others that have not been formalized.
<shawn> Sharron: Keyboard Access in oretty good shape. In place where could be reasonabley understoof & could get data from usability testing to help refine
Sharron: I think Forms, Keyboard, Media are in good enough shape to move to to the WAI page with understanding that they open for revision, even extensive revision based on user testing
Jennifer: I might be able to get a couple of people to test but remember it is crazy at CSUN and people's time is valuable there. So an incomplete page might be better becasue it reduces the time commitment.
Shawn: Agree we don't want to go back and forth to the wiki. Let's look at those sections.
Jennifer: If we get too formal, we have to manage it.
<LiamM> Much prefer usability to user
<LiamM> Or ux testing
Shawn: User testing can be understood as testing the user. I prefer the term usability testing. Can we try to use that term instead. And actually as it is so informal, we may even use another term. We can go over on M and T exactly what we are doing and how to talk about it.
AnnaBelle: Yes want to make clear that we are testign the web site, not the user.
Shawn: Let's look at media section
<LiamM> I think this is perfectly coherent! Including 'are the captions in sync'
<LiamM> Too complicated for this doc.
All: Discussion of current media content
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say auto caption?
Jennifer: Is there a compromise,
not write specifcally about that, just say are they in sync and
... not go into detail about why they might / might not be.
Shawn: Possible and the person
doing the check would then decide how much time they wish to
spend. My question is if I am a prelim reviewer. I see there
are captions, but if I don't know to look for the inaccuracies
of auto-captioning, how would I review properly. if the first
few things are in sync and are accurate.
... is it common enough of an issue.
... if so, we should say something briefly about it.
<LiamM> You have to switch it on
Shawn: so like with audio
description, we may want to give enough info to let them know
what auto captions are
... any objections?
<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to add breif explanation of auto-captions to intro in media section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-275 - Add breif explanation of auto-captions to intro in media section [on Sharron Rush - due 2013-03-01].
Sharron: Is it sufficient to reference the logos in the media player bar?
Shawn: No, I would need to know
that if the logo is NOT there, it does not have audio
... or if there is another version with AD is that sufficinet?
... It needs to be quite clear that the toggle is quite rare.
... and so we need to call out that there is a more common alternative.
<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to edit audio description to reflect that the provision on a separate track is rare. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-276 - Edit audio description to reflect that the provision on a separate track is rare. [on Sharron Rush - due 2013-03-01].
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/video-notes says: Audio description - required only for relevant visuals not already covered in what's said. (Audio description says what's in the visuals, so it's available to people who are blind.) Most W3C video won't need audio description. For example, you do not need audio description for talking heads only, or for text on slides as long as the slide text is woven
<shawn> into what you say. You might need audio description of things like charts and diagrams.
<shawn> text in video
<LiamM> Suggest avoid using 'keyboard focus' without explaining it.
<LiamM> Opera has its own way of kb nav.
<LiamM> Q,a,w,s etc.
<LiamM> Kb nav is spatial as well as sequential.
<LiamM> (wish my mic was working)
<LiamM> I can research Opera if you like.
<LiamM> It is great, yes.
<LiamM> Ur what to look for
<shawn> "Verify that any visual changes that occur with mouse hover also are triggered with keyboard focus"
<scribe> ACTION: Liam will investigate what to say about Opera in relation to keyboard [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-277 - Will investigate what to say about Opera in relation to keyboard [on Liam McGee - due 2013-03-01].
<LiamM> Show picture of default kb focus.
<LiamM> Especially menu elements!
Shawn: How much do we want to
look at this at the F2F and Zoom and Color/Constrast
... shall we talk about these at F2F?
Sharron: To get in shape to use in usability testing?
Shawn: What do you think abut that? we could still be editing and working in the wiki?
Sharron: Yes, I think that is a good goal.
Shawn: Great, we have a plan. I'll work on agenda and send draft.
<LiamM> Sorry :(
<AnnaBelle> Do I need an action item for Mac testing?
<scribe> ACTION: AnnaBelle to investigate keyboard test parameters for Mac [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Error finding 'AnnaBelle'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/track/users>.
<scribe> ACTION: Anna Belle to investigate keyboard test parameters for Mac [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-278 - Belle to investigate keyboard test parameters for Mac [on Anna Belle Leiserson - due 2013-03-01].
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/tries/ties/ Succeeded: s/EasyChacks/Easy Checks/ Succeeded: s/emantime/meantime/ Found Scribe: Sharron Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron Default Present: Shawn, Sharron, +1.615.936.aaaa, Bim, AnnaBelle, +1.650.348.aabb, Jennifer, LiamM Present: Shawn Sharron +1.615.936.aaaa Bim AnnaBelle +1.650.348.aabb Jennifer LiamM Regrets: Emmanuelle Sylvie Suzette Andrew Vicki Shadi Helle Ian Found Date: 22 Feb 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/02/22-eo-minutes.html People with action items: anna annabelle belle investigate liam sharron shawn what will[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]