W3C

- DRAFT -

mlw-lt wg

11 Feb 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
felix, DomJones, Marcis, mdelolmo, leroy, DaveLewis, shaunm, philr, olaf-michael, ankit, Ankit, kfritsche, Milan, pnietoca, tadej
Regrets
Jörg, yves, dF, christian
Chair
felix
Scribe
Marcis

Contents


Prague ITS2 presence

felix: Carl & Frederick gave a presentation in XML Prague
... topic of the presentation - building more connectors
... connectors between ITS 2.0 supported systems (from XML editor, e.g., to OKAPI, etc.)
... Good progress in implementation work
... If there are resources left in the second half, maybe there could be implementations on connectors between tools

>> second half -> second half of 2013

"high level use cases" document publishing

felix: by Feb 15th people need to update Wiki

xml:lang vs. lang issue-110

felix: There was no clear outcome of the discussion (in previous call)
... Is there something more needed?

Dave: Last Mondays call, it came down to change wording in the specification - the general issue where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML
... We discussed in the call that there should be a note
... Or a best practice
... The wording refers to when you work with XHTML in Web
... There was no solution if we would use XHTML as an internal format

Felix: talked to Jirka, he said that easy guidance could be that if it is XHTML you handle it as XML, but if you need to publish it, it could be changed to "its-"

Dave: Could be good clarification

Felix: Jirka not here, so we cannot create the note

<fsasaki> ACTION: jirka to draft an explanatory note on issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML, including a workflow on the web and outside the web [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-444 - Draft an explanatory note on issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML, including a workflow on the web and outside the web [on Jirka Kosek - due 2013-02-18].

Felix: Could be useful to Linguaserve

NIF comments

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0015.html

Felix: waiting for Christian to get back on us
... Later in the call, term+disamb
... Could help resolve the Nif comment

Dave: It has come up with the Indic languages+disambig.
... Also possibly Loc.note, etc.

<fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/109

Dave: Got a response on NIF (in e-mail

Felix: Is there someone writing / do we have the manpower

<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to write a note about NIF role for standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-445 - Write a note about NIF role for standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-02-18].

Felix: Writing himself an action on Issue 68 and 109

Dave: The note first and then we will see
... Working with Leroy on best practice where NIF predicates could be used
... but there are no examples yet

Felix: wants to do dreaming around
... dreams about standardising NIF through W3C
... Could it be a topic to discuss?

Dave: The onto-lexica group maybe is interested
... maybe also in CNGL
... It could fit well - could be interesting (also to DCU)
... There hasn't been much activity on the onto-lexica group
... But we could put the idea on the table

Could someone turn the music off

<fsasaki> done :)

Dave: NIF plays a big role in [some events]

<fsasaki> = european data forum etc.

Space normalization for its:locNOte

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0049.html

Shon: Minor issue, we have no spec. that states in the loc note element for space normalisation.
... not clear whether it should be normalised
... seems clear that everyone does it
... Should we get into details how it should be normalised?

<fsasaki> this is now https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/116

Shon: Difficult to specify ...

Felix: Test Suite output won't be influenced
... test suite removes empty spaces
... not perfect, but catches most errors
... In output we have a description where there is space/tab character

Shon: I'm working with test files, othis is how the issue got apparent

(not sure I got this right - there is someone breathing really loud - I barely hear Shon)

Shon: But not sure whether this is really a big issue

Shon/Felix: suggest to leave as is

Felix: We come back next week and close it next week

issues in note in 2.1.2 (no issue number yet)

Felix: By Shaun

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0048.html

Shaun: tried to give an example for a selector that would not work if you put it in XSLT
... Example is not a valid path as it is missing a leading slash
... example in ITS spec...

<fsasaki> now https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/117

Shaun: Seems to be ok if you cannot handle absolute paths then it is not conforming to the spec.

Felix: ITS 2.0 there was a change in late december - it is just a location path and not an abs. loc. path

<fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#d0e2063

Felix: It is also possible to use relative paths

Shaun: Language should be cleaned up in the example

Felix: Pandora box 6.1?

<fsasaki> section 1-2

Felix: Not 6.1, but 1-2
... These are not normative, but have a lot of issues
... We do not need to resolve this for the last call, but the sections will have to be updated
... Proposes Shaun to rewrite the example

Shaun: Yes

<fsasaki> ACTION: shaun to re-write example mentioned in issue-117 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-446 - Re-write example mentioned in issue-117 [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-02-18].

not an issue, but anyway: proposed wiki changes

<fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0028.html

Felix: Wiki changes, wants for people to be aware
... Thx. to people who already made changes
... Will make changes on Friday

xliff samples

<fsasaki> https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/tree/master/its2.0/xliffsamples

Felix: XLIFF samples, various people+Marcis asked
... This is not part of conformance testing
... People need this, but this is not for the stand. process

Dave: finding it useful
... useful for use-cases for Rome
... Giving us means to figure out the XLIFF mapping

<fsasaki> yves' mail on the mapping at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0046.html

Dave: Using for testing of mapping for provenance
... Will put more examples later this week
... Had a talk with Ankit/Phil to see whether XLIFF mapping for [..] could be included as well

<fsasaki> Marcis: thanks a lot, we were looking for such examples

<fsasaki> .. we are looking forward to see more, covering other data categories

<fsasaki> .. looked at the biiiig XLIFF file

<fsasaki> .. we are looking for particularily elements that cover data categories that we will implement

<fsasaki> .. terminology, elements within text, ...

<fsasaki> .. haven't had the change whether the examples cover everthing

<fsasaki> felix: do you need several data categories at the same time in one file?

<fsasaki> marcis: no, even if we have one data category per file that is enough

<fsasaki> dave: we are also looking into how to introduce tan and terminology into a use case

<fsasaki> .. we have taken content out of xliff, run it through enrycher and what the output would be

<fsasaki> .. not sure what the values would be, but we start with suggestions

<fsasaki> marcis: the more test files we have the better

<fsasaki> dave: esp. real life translated

<fsasaki> ACTION: yves to make a batch transformation of the test suite to xliff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-447 - Make a batch transformation of the test suite to xliff [on Yves Savourel - due 2013-02-18].

inline global rules in xhtml and other xhtml stuff

<fsasaki> covered by action to jirka, see above

Felix: already gave action item to Jurka

disambiguation vs. term - update on issue-68

Felix: As said before call, me, Tadej, Marcis, and Christian took this off the call
... Outcome: some issues are resolved
... Differences came clear
... confidence of term relates to term=yes/no, but not the ref.
... For Disambig. it relates to the complete annotation
... Maybe after Wednesday we will come up with ways how to make differences clearer
... does not want this to be secret discussion
... Offline calls meant just to move discussion forward
... anyone can join

Dave: to clarify - the value for terminology confidence relates to term=yes/no?

Felix: Yes
... this is why here merging does not fit
... A guess for the outcome - we probably won't merge, but will have progress on describing relations and giving guidance on usefulness

<fsasaki> tadej: one solution would be to have two different confidence values, one for term flag, one for identifier

<fsasaki> .. but there is a lot of orthnogality here, no clean way to merge things

<fsasaki> ..we also decided to call this "text analyis", it has a "ta" prefix instead of a "disambig" prefix

<fsasaki> marcis: nothing to add

Other issues that need discussion to close "last call" period

Felix: Some new small issues, the larger on term+disambig

<fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open

Felix: Have we forgotten anything?
... knows person who has the most actions - he is called Felix

I hear only noise

Dave: said last week that there were people for shephearding
... If they could send out a message to commenters leaving one week to reply whether answers are satisfactory?!

Felix: Agrees

Rome preparation heads up

Felix: Rome workshop ahead, call next week, Feb. 20
... Asked implementers to prepare poster drafts
... Will be public

aob

Felix: Any other questions?
... thanks a lot
... good that we have run out of discussion topics
... We could have also shorter calls in the future

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: felix to write a note about NIF role for standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jirka to draft an explanatory note on issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML, including a workflow on the web and outside the web [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: shaun to re-write example mentioned in issue-117 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: yves to make a batch transformation of the test suite to xliff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-02-11 17:43:44 $