Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

10 Jan 2013


See also: IRC log


mmartin3, glenn, +49.893.aaaa, +1.425.658.aabb, Sean, +1.858.847.aacc, pal, mike, Andreas, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.771.aadd, mijordan, Plh


<trackbot> Date: 10 January 2013

chair sean hayes

<scribe> scribenick: mmartin3

zzakim,aaaa is Andreas

akim, aaaa is Andreas

SDP-US Issues


<trackbot> ISSUE-198 -- Add TTML in Title of SDP-US for Ready Recognition -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/198

mmartin3: For ease of recognition.

mike: sounds reasonable.

Link: http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/

glenn: Where do we put it?

mjordan: What about after SDP?

glenn: Monica's suggestion is preferred.

Resolved to add TTML to the name of SDP-US.

<scribe> ACTION: Glenn Add "TTML" to name of SDP-US. Link: http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-137 - Add "TTML" to name of SDP-US. Link: http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/ [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-01-17].

<glenn> monica's suggestion is to put TTML at beginning of title

sean: Redundant list of features in Appendix B.

glenn: Don't serve any real purpose.
... Features defined in Section 9.
... Duplicative and could become out of sync (current case).

mike: Informative summary could also be added.

Resolved: Remove two subsections in Appendix A.


<glenn> remove two paragraphs after table in appendix B

<scribe> ACTION: Glenn Delete 2 paragraphs after table in Appendix B of SDP-US. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Delete 2 paragraphs after table in Appendix B of SDP-US. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-01-17].

sean: Fix in editor's draft.

glenn: Has to check URLs.

mike: Public?


pal: Add origin and extent to SDP-US?
... Section 9.
... Do we need display-region?

glenn: Support styling.
... Do we need display for other elements in addition of region?
... Don't think we need on other elements like span.
... No change.

mmartin3: We have requirements in extent-region.

sean: Need to add extent and origin to Section 9.

Andreas: Do we more for layering?


sean: Extent and origin consumed by layout.
... No change needed in Section 9.
... Note?

glenn: Problem is we need to trace all others.
... Glenn will review to decide if we place a note in SDP-US not in Section 9.

sean: Each feature description gives attributes and elements. Add another table or subsection in Section 9 that articulates those elements and attributes.

glenn: Duplicates material that could become wrong.

sean: Automate?

glenn: Only prose in sections.

Resolved: No change.

glenn: SDP-US editorial issue in Example 2 has wrong font size.

<scribe> ACTION: Glenn Correct font size in Example 2 in SDP-US. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Correct font size in Example 2 in SDP-US. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-01-17].

TTML 1.0 Second Edition


<trackbot> ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173

glenn: No progress on SE issues. Work on now.
... Not sure we discussed in detail.
... Character without a mapped gliff.
... Handle directly or indirectly in XSL-FO semantics. Need to check this.
... Display gliff at all? Which is specified?

mike: Need to decide on ones that alter the flow - carriage return, tab, etc.
... Are they part of the behavior of the region?
... Ignor or substitute?

glenn: Handled by default semantics of XSL-FO. Describe behavior whitespace handling, new lines, etc. Default semantics of XSL-FO apply because TTML 1.0 doesn't dictate them.
... We could put information in TTML 1.0 SE.
... Umbrella issue that needs to be separate.

sean: Be clear of what semantics actually are.
... Need to know what is in TTML 1.0.

glenn: What are in the specification?

mike: Tab, Carriage Return, New Line.

glenn: Line separator and paragraph separator.

sean: Glenn and Mike will quantify where we are at.

mike: Section 7..1.7 is an example where we need to clarify. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#content-vocabulary-br

glenn: Reference UAX-14. May need to update and look at XSL-FO references in Second Edition.

mike: One or more issues?

glenn: Need another issue specifically related to whitespace handling and line breaking.


<trackbot> ISSUE-175 -- media type and file extension not registered -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/175

mike: Produced proposed redlines.
... Material to Sean and Glenn, and to TTWG is sufficient. Original TTML 1.0 said that encoding should be binary. Should be UTF-8 and UTF-16.

glenn: Registration information says binary.

mike: XML specific encoding is what we are targeting.

Mike's post: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Nov/0036.html

glenn: TTML 1.0 Second Edition doesn't talk about binary.
... Not in TTML 1.0 either.

mike: Differences between what was given to IANA, discussion and in TTML 1.0.
... Talk about encoding.

glenn: We don't have constraints for encoding. Recommended for wire encoding.

mike: Optional parameters - application/xml supports a large number of encodings including binary.

glenn: TTML 1.0 doesn't mandate a concrete encoding. Defines at the infoset with scalar values irrespective of their encoding.
... Appendix G.
... May differ with what was defined in MIME registration type.
... Shouldn't constrain.

mike: Presentation engines that use UTF-8 and -16 gives some preference.
... UTF-8 document with namespace with binary.

glenn: Where is the reference for your concern?

sean: We do have a constraint in SDP-US.
... Don't understand the issue.

mike: We have an issue on encoding.

glenn: Content conformance has some requirements to application/xml


<trackbot> ISSUE-197 -- charset/encoding unconstrained -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/197
...glenn: Derive encoding from there.

sean: Table discussion until the issue is understood.
... Mike put a paragraph summarizing your concerns. Sean will review.

mike: My concern is a document constrained to UTF-8 encoding with a namespace that uses binary. There could be processing issues. There may be other constraints in XML.

glenn: There is no explicit references other than a TTML document at runtime. There could be implicit references.

<mike> here is some more information, including the proposed redline of Annex C: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0005.html

sean: Could use XML include.
... May not need a concrete MIME type. We need to comprehensively look at how you create the XML using the Infoset.

glenn: We probably shouldn't say anything even though we may want to.
... Annex G could be generalized to namespace and profile documents.

mike: Need to fix Annex C or remove entirely. If we keep it, we need to update with comments from IANA and others (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0005.html).
... Talk more about encoding.



<trackbot> ACTION-133 -- Mike Dolan to create updated template and summary of media type record for Glenn. -- due 2012-12-13 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/133

<scribe> Closed


<trackbot> ACTION-136 -- Glenn Adams to integrate changes from Action-133 into the TTML 1.0 Second Edition -- due 2013-01-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/136

glenn: Still have issue if we need other changes. Do we delete Appendix C?

sean: Table action given discussion.


<trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199

mike: Contacted by implementers - timeExpression with frames. How do we calculate the video frame?
... Cases where different time representations using clock with frames that result in the same video frame.
... M->1 mapping OK.
... Glenn proposed a different algortihm to go to 1-1 with some side effects. What is the best approach and give guidance in TTML 1.0 SE.
... Issue exist for non-integer frame rates with timeExpression with clock with frames.

glenn: Implementer may have come to different conclusions. What was our original intent?
... Thread wasn't on public reflector.

sean: Glenn and Sean prepare a discussion document for Jan 17 or 24.

mike: Work with issue and what is on reflector.

plh: Will be gone Jan 17.

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Glenn Add "TTML" to name of SDP-US. Link: http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Glenn Correct font size in Example 2 in SDP-US. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Glenn Delete 2 paragraphs after table in Appendix B of SDP-US. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-01-10 16:00:35 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
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Found ScribeNick: mmartin3
Inferring Scribes: mmartin3
Default Present: mmartin3, glenn, +49.893.aaaa, +1.425.658.aabb, Sean, +1.858.847.aacc, pal, mike, Andreas, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.771.aadd, mijordan, Plh
Present: mmartin3 glenn +49.893.aaaa +1.425.658.aabb Sean +1.858.847.aacc pal mike Andreas Thomas_Bause_Mason +1.408.771.aadd mijordan Plh
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0009.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 10 Jan 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html
People with action items: add glenn ttml

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