Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference

20 Dec 2012


See also: IRC log


davidwood, MacTed, +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, cygri, agipap, Biplav, DeirdreLee, Makx, Yigal


<trackbot> Date: 20 December 2012

<Makx> I am voip but don't know how to tell zakim that

<PhilA> meeting: GLD Weekly Telecon

<PhilA> scribe: Biplav

<PhilA> scribeNick: Biplav

Bernadette: Gives opening remarks

<bhyland> Review & accept minutes from last meeting, http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-12-06

<GofranShu> +1

<PhilA> +1

<bhyland> Minutes accepted

<agipap> +1

<Makx> +1

<PhilA> Collected LC comments on ORG http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/ORG_LC_comments

Bernadette: last meeting; issues raised but nothing resolved.

<Makx> +q

Bernadette: Every WG member should review the status of different streams put together by Sandro.

Makx: There was a discussion on vocab reuse by email. Should we take it off-line or in this call?

Comment: Given we have open slot due to last minute change, vocab reuse could be discussed in the call.

Agenda change: Serafín Olcoz will note be presenting on Open Assets today.

Makx: Making request to have 10-15 mins discussion on vocab reuse.


<PhilA> ->Reg Org ed draft http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html

PhilA: Outstanding issues highlighted in the latest version.
... Make this FPWD candidate.

Bernadette: Is there a reference implementation?

PhilA: Business Registers can be seen as existing implementations (England, Australia, ..)

<bhyland> Would it make sense to have history / genesis of a vocabulary in the introduction? Or might that be considered inappropriate/unnecessary ...

<bhyland> PhilA: ChrisT w/ Open Corporates has used an earlier version of this. But the real implementation of this has been done by Agis for public spending...

PhilA: The closest implementation is by Agisilaos Papantoniou

<bhyland> … for Greek Government payments & receivables

Agis: Thousands of companies registered in their implementation (Greece)

PhilA: Interest from Sweden, interest from more regions, pent up demand.
... UML diagram has been added, simplified.
... RegOrg is designed for companies that come into being due to some registration process. <Further describes the intent>

<bhyland> … Phil walked through diagram for RegOrg.

PhilA: Since companies are registered, adms:identifier is used to describe the registration identification.
... Open address on how to have issue for organization.
... Describes INSPIRE mandate by EU on how to publish geo-spatial data, .... and how it impacts address description in EU.

<bhyland> PhilA: Mentioned EU Commission initiative INSPIRE, see http://inspire.jrc.ec.europa.eu/

<bhyland> EU requirements for conforment addresses …

<bhyland> PhilA: We should be agnostic about specifying addresses. We know there are compliance issues regarding expressing addresses in EU.

PhilA: Discussion on issue 47.

<cygri> ORG profile: http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/#conformance

Issue 47: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/47

<agipap> http://publicspending.medialab.ntua.gr/organizationsOntology.owl

<bhyland> cygri: I suggest that RegOrg conformance section include reference to ORG profile ORG profile:

<bhyland> An ORG profile is a specification for data interchange that adds additional constraints to ORG. Additional constraints in a profile may include (but are not limited to):

<bhyland> • a minimum set of required terms;

<bhyland> • classes and properties for additional terms not covered in ORG;

<bhyland> • controlled vocabularies or controlled sets of URIs to use as acceptable values for properties;

<bhyland> • guidance on use of pairs of inverse properties (such as selecting only one member of the pair to be included, or requiring that both members be explicitly included);

<bhyland> • guidance on choice of modelling approach for roles (see http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/#reporting_structure ).

<bhyland> great!

Cygri: For FPWD, we can keep it and resolve it with more discussion.

<PhilA> proposed resolution: that RegOrg as currently at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html be moved to First Public Working Draft

<cygri> +1


<bhyland> +1

<MacTed> +1

<Makx> +1

<agipap> +1

<bhyland> approved

<PhilA> Resolution: that RegOrg as currently at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html be moved to First Public Working Draft

<cygri> applause!

Reuse of vocabs

<bhyland> Should W3C vocabs include vocabs that are outside W3C process?

Makx: would like to know the feedback of the WG beyond what has already been exchanged over email.

<bhyland> Reference: From: Makx Dekkers [mailto:mail@makxdekkers.com]

<bhyland> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:03 AM

<bhyland> To: Public GLD WG

<bhyland> Cc: Sandro Hawke; Phil Archer

<bhyland> Subject: Referencing FOAF

<bhyland> Makx: Would hate to see W3C reinvent the wheel for deployed vocabularies.

<bhyland> … Some discussion for a community of vocabulary owners/maintainers to guarantee longterm availability of vocabularies.

<bhyland> … It is a wide issue that affects any initiative using vocabs.

PhilA: Option [2] is the answer. Explains his reasons ...

<bhyland> PhilA: Recalled discussions in prior W3C standards activities (i.e., POWDER), any vocab that depends upon any one person versus an organization with a published (stewardship) plan.

Bhyland: Makx question is at the core of LD.
... publishing vocab puts an implicit social contract that one would be keeping the vocab alive for a while.

<bhyland> … W3C has no hesitation in recommending standards / vocabs defined by others.

<PhilA> I've done some work on this recently... http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/semic/document/10-rules-persistent-uris

Bhyland: There should be a checklist when someone is putting a vocab in public domain, in best practice document.

<bhyland> cygri: We've (DERI) done some work on conformance to a vocabulary and what it means.

Cygri: reuse can done in a few ways. (a) Conformance is one way.

<bhyland> … We shouldn't normatively depend on vocabs not defined by an open, consensus driven process...

Cygri: shouldn't normatively depend on others who have not gone through a formal process.

<PhilA> This is relevant to ISSUE-50 http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/50

Cygri: We normally mean a weaker form. Who has authority to change and how much is the impact.

<bhyland> cygri: Not as worried about resources 404'ing rather, more concerned about changing underlying vocabs that are the building blocks of the LOD cloud...

Bhyland: let's revisit again. Important to get it right or we will have backlash. We need to be rigorous.

<PhilA> My understanding of cygri's words: The notion of conformance that we define should not depend on factors that are not controlled as carefully as our own work - to which +1

<cygri> PhilA, exactly.

<PhilA> Biplav: This problem keeps being repeated, whether it's vocabularies, papers, wiki entries etc., There are patterns of how this is addressed and we should come back to it

<bhyland> Biplav: This issue is repeated & there are patterns that we should keep in mind to guide our deliverables/guidance/best practices

Makx: we should have criteria.

<PhilA> Makx: Everyone's pointing to a set of criteria. OK, but we eitehr have a local set or we may want to share those criteria - maybe in our BP document

<PhilA> bhyland: Thanks to everyone for showing up today and throughout the year. Expresses appreciation for everyone's volunteer effort

<Makx> NO I meant that we should asy in BP that you need to set your own criteria, and maybe later share a commoin set with others

<GofranShu> thanks bye

<bhyland> Meeting & GLD WG for 2012 is officially adjourned! Happy Chanuka, Kwanza and Christmas to you all!

<bhyland> Enjoy the Winter Solstice tommorow!

<bhyland> ok

<bhyland> PhilA - RRS is being cranky with me ...

<bhyland> I'm getting:

<bhyland> Not Found

<bhyland> The requested URL /2011/gld/wiki/index.php was not found on this server.

<bhyland> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

<bhyland> An unfamiliar error msg. Any ideas?

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012-12-20 16:23:30 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/not sure of resolutions/nothing resolved/
Succeeded: s/address/issue/
Succeeded: s/conformance section conform to/conformance section include reference to ORG profile/
Succeeded: s/PhilA/Cygri/
Succeeded: s/POWER/POWDER/
Succeeded: s/tommorw/tommorow/
Found Scribe: Biplav
Found ScribeNick: Biplav
Default Present: davidwood, MacTed, +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, cygri, agipap, Biplav, DeirdreLee, Makx, Yigal
Present: davidwood MacTed + +3539149aabb +90507301aacc PhilA cygri agipap Biplav DeirdreLee Makx Yigal
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2012Dec/0024.html
Found Date: 20 Dec 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/12/20-gld-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]