W3C

WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference

13 Dec 2012

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Martijn, Kathy, Katie, Detlev, Eric, Shadi, Moe, Tim
Regrets
Peter, Sarah, Ramon
Chair
Eric
Scribe
Shadi

Contents


Disposition of Comments

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120920

EV: new disposition of comments
... just updated
... lots of work from me on it
... includes discussion from last week
... did the changes in a new Editor Draft
... for where there is agreement in the survey
... for example for comment ID #8

<MartijnHoutepen> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120920#comment11

EV: better example is comment ID#11
... made the change in an updated Editor Draft

<ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20121213

EV: this new draft is now also online
... fresh from the oven

<MartijnHoutepen> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120920#comment2

EV: column 2 shows the status
... for example for ID #2 points to on-going discussion
... this way we can keep track of the current status of each comment
... for example for ID #5 or #7, did proposal directly into the Editor Draft and point to it from the disposition of comment
... now can survey these proposals and get group input

MK: ID #5 took me to the top of the new Editor Draft
... is there a way to link directly to the relevant section?

DF: realize that this is quite complex now with so many comments
... also note drop of focus within the group
... not sure if easy to track things in 3 different places
... for me survey is the best way to respond to comments
... DoC and ED are static and cannot respond on
... not good where things need discussion

EV: agree; taking things that need discussion into surveys

<Detlev> OK .. I see

EV: sometimes discussing specific comments and sometimes more general things
... sometimes need to propose text in a draft and ask for input on it
... sometimes also editorial things

DF: think reluctance to repond is the amount of comments and places to focus on
... overwhelming
... think surveys are good to focus things on
... doing all in parallel is difficult

<MartijnHoutepen> saz: thanks to Eric for the hard work

<MartijnHoutepen> ... agree that it is overwhelming and because of the holidays there is less participation

<Detlev> Shadi: thanls Eric for tremendous work, explains reasons why we have a bit id a slow down

<Detlev> Shadi: agrees that surveys are the place to contribute

<Detlev> Shadi: some comments are easier to address in the draft, then having a pointer to draft in the survey

<Detlev> Shadi: disposition of comments affords overview-... Q to Eric - does that reflect your view?

EV: agree with Detlev that it is overwhelming
... linked more in disposition of comments
... will link more from surveys

<Detlev> no?

EV: also link to survey results from disposition of comments

<ericvelleman> https://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120915&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20121213

<Detlev> Links to diff version will be very useful!!

SAZ: can predict diff-version URI and link into that from surveys and disposition of comments

<Detlev> sounds good

EV: survey #5 is closed
... working comments into the drafts
... survey #6 was open until yesterday
... some points in there may start new discussion
... some divergence of opinions on some of the questions
... plan to launch new survey tomorrow or over the weekend

DF: maybe worth while to reopen last survey and ping people

EV: quite some discussion on the last question
... might be OK

DF: don't mind several surveys
... but important clearly request input from the group

EV: agree may seem overwhelming
... keep focus on surveys

<Detlev> 1+ 11+ 1+

<Detlev> this allows people to reuse the methodology in many more situations without actually broadening the scope of the document.

DF: question on rational to resolution to ID #4
... what is the difference between broadening the scope and providing use cases?

<MartijnHoutepen> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120920#comment4

DF: had commented on not constraining the uses
... for example make usable during development
... but not sure why decision is "no change"
... not sure methodology needs to look very different
... maybe change the report and certainly not accessibility statement
... think concern is that document will get complicated

EV: still on-going discussion
... e-mail thread going on
... seems to be mistake in the disposition of coments
... not the current rationale

<MartijnHoutepen> https://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120915&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20121213#scope

http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-eval-minutes.html

MK: also discussed not being able to make a statement of compliance when using during development

<Detlev> Shadi: difference between broadening scope and introducing usecases - if we include option for using WCAG-EM during develoopment we may have scope crewep, users asdking for introducing extra things

<Detlev> Shadi: if we focus on main use case we can still encourage application of WCAG-EM in othe contexts / use cases

DF: agree basically with that
... can specify main purpose
... but also explain and encourage use during development
... of course noting that will not lead to conformance

<Detlev> fine

EV: discussion still open on this

Discussion in survey evaltfq6

EV: valuable input from Detlev
... will reopen it and ask people to answer or edit their responses as needed

DF: maybe good to remind people that they can go back and change their responses
... did not know about that feature

<Detlev> you never get the same sense of overview on the mailing list!

EV: as long as comments are relatively concise it helps having it in one place
... planning to do call next week
... then the next in January

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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