HTML Weekly Teleconference

06 Dec 2012


See also: IRC log


glenn, adrianba, paulc, Janina_Sajka, hober, [Microsoft], cabanier, krisk, Eliot, jaymunro, Radhika_Roy, +49.322.110.8.aaaa, Barbara
Paul Cotton
Adrian Bateman


<trackbot> Date: 06 December 2012

<scribe> ScribeNick: adrianba

<scribe> Scribe: Adrian Bateman

ACTION items due by Thursday, December 6


<trackbot> ACTION-223 -- Paul Cotton to figure out how extension specs can refer to HTML 5.1 -- due 2012-11-08 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/223

paulc: i put this off last week to remind myself of the context
... we decided during the media call on tuesday that this was unnecessary
... so i closed the action and don't expect further action is needed

New Issues This Week

paulc: none
... tracker requests being postponed

HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D

paulc: the drafts are being worked on
... believe this is still a work in progress

Eliot, not done yet but expecting robin will finish today

paulc: as soon as the drafts are ready, we will do a 7 day CfC
... with goal of publishing on dec 17
... questions?

HTML Microdata

paulc: we have a candidate CR working draft
... did a call for rationale statements since CfC did not pass
... manu has provided statements against CR
... believe we have pro position from Mike Smith
... some other pro statements on the list
... original plan was to do preference poll with these statements
... chairs wondering if are ready for this

<hober> ack

hober: i posted to the list volunteering for this

<paulc> Ted's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Dec/0041.html

paulc: i missed that, sorry
... how long will it take to close this

hober: i said by end of business tomorrow - i imagine it collating the existing statements rather than new writing

paulc: great, that's what i was hoping for
... anticipate preference poll going out when ted finishes his work

Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents

paulc: here we don't yet have a candidate CR draft
... asked editors to provide with exit criteria
... other item pending waiting for a pro statement for publishing this or making it normative


paulc: Eliot do you know what the situation for exit criteria is?

Eliot: based on discussion with the chairs i thought i didn't need to do this until it was decided if this would go to Rec
... started working on this and might have it soon

<gitbot> 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/df69216520fc4c15df069a63e842e78302a495b0

<gitbot> 13html/06master 14df69216 15Robin Berjon: boilerplate level 2 and nightly

paulc: that's fine - good to do it soon if you can
... wanted to point WG members to the TAG discussion about retaining the original request for polyglot document or not


<gitbot> 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to 06FPWD51: 02https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/6306692cbe44b0f38676a773785e45b679de4cbb

<gitbot> 13html/06FPWD51 146306692 15Robin Berjon: level 2 and 5.1 with a space

paulc: believe TAG is meeting yesterday or today
... thread is continuing

<paulc> Recent TAG discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Dec/0034.html

paulc: eliot, i note that larry has asked for you to be engaged in the discussion

Eliot: i sent mail to Noah to see what he thought would be appropriate
... willing to engage as needed

paulc: two items to worry about - normativity of document and moving to CR
... yours is about Rec track, adrianba?

adrianba: yes, but i included a note on normative

paulc: we can hold this for a week or so to see how the TAG closes this down
... i will track this and will try to get preference poll out once we have appropriate evidence
... comments?

HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives

paulc: do have canidate CR draft but need exit criteria
... currently pending work by a11y TF
... plan 2014 pointed to some work that TF had done
... discussed on TF meeting this morning
... janina, can you give us an update?

janina: the outcome of today's discussion was to ask that publication of this be deferred while we resolve issues about alt in this document and the html spec
... we will do a CfC based on the telcon
... expect that we will ask this to be deferred

paulc: one item was that the chairs had encouraged TF to work with editors to get differences resolved
... but we didn't know the status on the TF this morning
... wanted to get status from robin or the other editors
... moving this forward to CR is on hold for now waiting for pending work
... people probably think we don't need a spec overlapping html5 normative language
... janina, do you agree?

janina: think so

Main Element

paulc: CfC passed
... provisional date is dec 17



paulc: this is a request to publish as FPWD - waiting for feedback on whether ready for CfC

janina: i missed the meetings about this so didn't follow up
... PF did approve but didn't follow-up
... no reason why we can't do CfC

paulc: plan is to do CfC for publishing of FPWD of using ARIA in HTML
... will work with janina on this
... both in task force and working group simultaneously

janina: and in PF

HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D

<Zakim> plh, you wanted to go back to html5.1 and canvas2d.next

plh: i believe that robin is ready (and he is on the phone)

paulc: can we get the URLs of the stable docs in IRC

plh: yes

<darobin> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/

<plh> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/FPWD51/Overview.html

<plh> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/FPWD51/Overview.html

<plh> Robin, please type in here

<darobin> it looks like it isn't working

<darobin> I'll type

<darobin> those drafts should be okay

<darobin> (not sure if I need to add more)

<darobin> please check that they're correct

paulc: we need to do a separate CfC on publication of these drafts, correct?

plh: correct

paulc: would like to do this today so we can hit dec 17
... think will do two separate CfCs

<darobin> we need to pick a shortname for canvas2d2

<darobin> this can be done outside the call, by executive decision

<plh> "2dcontext-2" ?

paulc: chairs and team will figure out short name
... every working draft has a short name
... plh, for these FPWD does this request have to go to chairs list?

<glenn> c2d

plh: yes, it's FPWD, no directors request just sent to chairs list

paulc: did this happen for main element?

plh: no, not yet

paulc: okay, this needs to happen too

<paulc> 1. Chairs message on main element to chairs@w3.org

<paulc> 2. Chairs messgae on HTML5.1 and Canvas2D-2 to Chairs@w3.org

<paulc> 3. Cfc on FPWD of HTML 5.1

<paulc> 4. CfC on FPWD of Canvas2D-2

paulc: is this correct?

<paulc> 5. CfC on FPWD of ARIA in HTML (also in PF and A11Y TF)

<paulc> 6. Chairs message on FPWD of ARIA in HTML to chairs@w3.org

paulc: think this is all the publication things?

plh: what is the minimum duration for canvas2d in CR?

paulc: don't know

<jaymunro> moving to 6mong

plh: was a discussion after CfC about reducing duration
... think it was only 6 months
... not sure if acknowledged anywhere

paulc: was this in the archive?

plh: yes but i'm looking for the conclusion of the discussion

paulc: last week's minutes say we had no objections and request to reduce duration of CR
... and were expecting decision by next week

<jaymunro> I'll change the boilerplate once the decision has been made for shortening to 6 months.

plh: last week sam said decision would be made by this week - are you asking for a CfC now?

paulc: plh, what is your recommendation?

plh: one way to go is to see what people on this call think
... say it will be 6 months unless someone says something on the list within one week

<paulc> From Rik: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0212.html

paulc: will reply to the thread stating it will be 6 months unless someone objects by some date

<paulc> 7. Chairs to confirm with WG that min duration for Canvas CR will be 6 months

paulc: plh, anything else?

plh: no, sorry for disturbing the agenda

Testing Task Force

krisk: we met on nov 20
... and we met on tuesday

<krisk> Notes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0001.html

<krisk> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0002.html

krisk: here are the notes
... one thing we agreed is moving towards short names for test organisation
... this came up a little a tpac
... 1. this means we don't need metadata in every test
... 2. it will help understand coverage of tests
... we spent one meeting for 90 minutes - longer than usual
... and this week the full hour
... discussing how to use mercurial better
... using pull model instead of pushing things in
... meeting again to make progress on this
... more participation
... that's it

paulc: any questions?
... krisk, can you give us the most definitive link to work on task force?

krisk: the meeting notes are the best links

paulc: thanks kris

Accessibility Task Force

janina: activity is picking up again with reorg that came with plan 2014
... people getting clarity of who is doing which piece

<krisk> This is the best link for Testing Task Force Information http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing

janina: had CfC for longdesc spec that restore old historical one
... mostly supportive but some objections
... will summarise and respond to all objections before passing to WG
... that work is ongoing
... already talked about alt text issues a few minutes ago - nothing to add
... bug triage team continues to meet
... i'm paying more attention to a11y api mapping subteam
... deliverable for HTML WG to show how html elements and attributes should map to OS apis
... important deliverable - difficult to find a meeting time because of location of participants
... that's where we are

Media Task Force

paulc: we restarted the meetings
... high level report is driving the MSE and EME sub groups to get a document in front of WG that could be FPWD as soon as possible
... MSE met on tuesday, EME met next tuesday
... for MSE identified 5 or 6 bugs that need to be fixed before FPWD
... won't go to zero bugs but should be enough for FPWD
... hoping to achieve the same for EME next week
... expecting to be ready for CfC for FPWD in January
... talked about a11y TF paying more attention to media TF

Other Business

paulc: update on public-html-admin
... list is set-up and is being used for non-technical discussions
... next item is to get new bugzilla message to go to this list
... all new CfC discussed today will also go to that list
... leaving public-html for pure technical discussion

glenn: i would advise that bugzilla messages go to separate list than admin

paulc: there is a list for this already - WG has previous decision in place asking for new messages only to public-html
... changing the destination but maintaining that there is a list everyone is subscribed to that gets the new messages

glenn: then i withdraw my comment

paulc: appears to be a request with no responses about publishing their document via the HTML WG
... added to the agenda because not sure how to process this


paulc: plh, i wasn't sure how to respond to this - nobody has responded
... CG has asked about publishing use cases

plh: seems to me good to publish use cases as WG note

adrianba: haven't had time to respond but we are supportive of moving this forward in HTML WG based on great work in the CG

paulc: so you support publishing both?

adrianba: yes

paulc: this was discussed at TPAC - was the the conclusion to move forward with both specs

hober: that's how i remember it

paulc: are you ready to publish or do you want to process bugs?

hober: i haven't asked for fpwd because i want to process bugs
... expect to be ready in early january

plh: is the intent to pick a winner down the road or do we see both going to rec

hober: think given the timeframe for plan 2014 we have a pretty good window of time to figure this out so i'm okay with uncertainty
... that said, would be easy to merge srcset document

plh: i was thinking about merging the two proposals for responsive images
... think it would be good in status of documents to give information about expectation of the group
... because people might wonder about publishing two competing specs

hober: happy to update status in that way

paulc: i will respond to the msg 173 saying editor of srcset extension proposal has asked for time to process bugs
... and expect to process CfC on theses docs in early 2013

hober: sounds good

paulc: will move this to admin list

hober: given it is december, expect people will accept early 2013 timeframe

paulc: any other business?

Scribe for next meeting

paulc: expect mjs will chair next week
... any volunteer to scribe?

plh: i can take notes next week

paulc: thanks plh


paulc: meeting is adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found ScribeNick: adrianba
Found Scribe: Adrian Bateman
Default Present: glenn, adrianba, paulc, Janina_Sajka, hober, [Microsoft], cabanier, krisk, Eliot, jaymunro, Radhika_Roy, +49.322.110.8.aaaa, Barbara
Present: glenn adrianba paulc Janina_Sajka hober [Microsoft] cabanier krisk Eliot jaymunro Radhika_Roy +49.322.110.8.aaaa Barbara
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012OctDec/0019.html
Found Date: 06 Dec 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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