W3C

- DRAFT -

MLW-LT editing call

27 Nov 2012

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
karl, yves, felix, Yves_, dave, david, jirka, pnietoca
Regrets
Chair
felix
Scribe
fsasaki

Contents


work plan / agenda check

waiting for people to come ...

Global rules for provenance discussion

basis for discussion is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0186.html

dave: yves' points are correct
... there is no way of writing a global pointer rule which is aware of values in the xliff
... even if we could figure out the xpath, you would need something in the rule to filter out things in the phase group that did not map to "revision"
... because you cannot differentiate phase groups in the way needed
... this topic, plus toolsRef issues
... plus if you want to do mapping between phase group and rules, you need more than pointer rules
... I'd say let's get rid of pointer rules
... appart of standoff pointers

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#provenance-global

"provenanceRecordsRefPointer"

everything else would be deleted. That is: "personPointer, personRefPointer, orgPointer, orgRefPointer, toolPointer, toolRefPointer, revPersonPointer, revPersonRefPointer, revOrgPointer, revOrgRefPointer, revToolPointer, revToolRefPointer and provRefPointer"

<scribe> ACTION: jirka to take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].

<pnietoca> sorry i'm late

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#notation-terminology

drop relax ng namespace, not used in the spec

added html namespace

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-schemalanguage

dropping complete section

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-datacat

"The concept of a data category is independent of its implementation in an XML environment" > The concept of a data category is independent of its implementation in an XML and HTML environment"

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-selection

"parts of an XML document " > "parts of an XML or HTML document"

"Selection relies on the information that is given in the XML Information Set [XML Infoset]. ITS applications MAY implement inclusion mechanisms such as XInclude or DITA's [DITA 1.0] conref."

drop the paragraph

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

<scribe> ACTION: felix to update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].

action-326: not needed, handled during editing call

<trackbot> ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage notes added

close action-326

<trackbot> ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage closed

<scribe> dropped attribute list, reffering now only to RELAX NG schema and the anyURI data types

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance

make sure that everything will say "HTML" or "HTML5"?

jirka: w3c working group said they will use html versioning
... to avoid perception that ITS cannot be applied to HTML6

david: future proof is good
... but it is not valid HTML4
... you could say "HTML5 and higher"

karl: could say HTML and in an introduction we say "HTML is defined by HTML5 or its successor"

added a subsection in the terminology section, see www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##def-html

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-schema

"[Ed. note: Below statement about schemas is wrong if the ITS schemas will be normative.]": deleting note

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##conformance-product-processing-expectations

"[Ed. note: All traces of HTML has to be removed if we will proceed with CT 3 and HTML+ITS CC.]": note from Jirka

everyone is happy with separate html confirmance type, so can remove note

deleting all traces of HTML and HTML5 in this section, since there is now a separate conformacne type for html5

<Yves_> https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-html-processing-expectations

discussed "processing expecations" vs "processing requirements", might change terminology (not normative def) during last call

<scribe> ACTION: Jirka to go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#its-processing

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategory-locations

discussion on "standoff markup", related to "location", but somehow different, not added here

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##selection-global

delete ruby mentions throughout section 5.2

"The content model of span permits arbitrary nesting of ruby markup, since the rt element can contain span. An application of ruby, however, MUST not use such arbitrary nesting.": deleted, ruby not needed here

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors

"The following attributes point to existing information:": deleted pointer attributes not needed anymore

scribe: after the "pointer in provenacne" discussion today

"5.3.3 CSS Selectors"

"5.3.4 Additional query languages"

"5.3.5 Variables in selectors"

"5.4 Link to External Rules"

<scribe> ACTION: felix to create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 - due 15 december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-328 - create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].

"5.5 Precedence between Selections"

"Implicit Local selection in documents" > not inherited local selection is meant?

"Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via local ITS markup in documents

"Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via explicit (that is not inherited) local ITS markup in documents

keep as is, may clarify during LC phase

<pnietoca> the same happens in point 7.5

<pnietoca> so if you're going to change it you have to change both

tx, pnietoca, will take that into account during LC too

"5.6 Associating ITS Data Categories with Existing Markup"

<pnietoca> sorry folks I have to leave, besides my microphone it's not working I don't know why!, I'm trying to speak but I can't

<pnietoca> I hope to have it fixed next time

sure, thanks for being here, pnietoca!

<pnietoca> anyway I 'll send a number of misprints and other things I noticed during the revision

<pnietoca> to the list

<pnietoca> cheers, bye!

discussing position of sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5"

<daveL> suggest text for last note in 5.5, change "and these are overridden via local markup." to "which are in turn overridden by local markup"

<scribe> done

sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5" is now sec 6, old sec 6 is sec 7

sec 8 about xhtml now also moved, is new sec 7, old sec 6 is sec 8

5.7 Conversion to NIF

remove mentions of ontology

1 hour break

<Yves_> Sorry: i wasn't able to do diddly-squat on updating the provenance section

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conversion-to-nif

"5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"

dave, felix - need a running list of all the MUST statements and make sure that we have a test

test suite

"The data category identifier MUST be one of the following identifiers" example of a statement that needs testing to

<scribe> ACTION: felix to come up with running list of MUST statements for testing - due december 15 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - come up with running list of MUST statements for testing [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].

<scribe> ACTION: felix to move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].

replacing lq-issues with lq-issue in identifer list

"Inline global rules MUST be specified inside script which has type attribute with the value application/xml or application/its+xml. "

in 6.3 Inline Global Rules in HTML5

"with the value application/xml or application/its+xml." > "with the value application/its+xml."

"The script element itself MUST be child of head element." > "The script element itself SHOULD be child of head element."

6.4 Standoff Markup in HTML5

"In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script element with its id attribute that MUST be set to the same value as the xml:id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it contains." > "In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script element. It MUST have a type attribute with the value application/its+xml. Its id attribute that MUST be set to the same value as the...
...xml: id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it contains."

same change for lq issue

"6.5 Precedence between Selections"

"Note: If identical selections are defined in different rules elements within one document, the selection defined by the last takes precedence.": removing the note in sec. 5.5 Precedence between Selections

same for 6.5 Precedence between Selections

added note from XML section 5.5 "ITS does not define precedence related to rules defined or linked based on non-ITS mechanisms (such as processing instructions for linking rules)." to HTML section 6.5

"7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML"

<scribe> ACTION: karl to create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-331 - Create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML [on Karl Fritsche - due 2012-12-04].

next call

karl could do wed, felix not wed, but thur

dave from 1-3 p.m. utc

on thursday

and wed too

yves better on wed

felix on thur 2 p.m. utc - later

yves: will modify proveance ot remove pointers

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: felix to come up with running list of MUST statements for testing - due december 15 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 - due 15 december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jirka to go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jirka to take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: karl to create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012-11-27 16:58:42 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: fsasaki
Inferring Scribes: fsasaki
Present: karl yves felix Yves_ dave david jirka pnietoca
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Nov 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html
People with action items: felix jirka karl

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