IRC log of mlw-lt on 2012-11-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:36:20 [RRSAgent]

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12:36:20 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc

12:36:25 [fsasaki]

meeting: MLW-LT editing call

12:36:32 [fsasaki]

chair: felix

12:37:48 [kfritsche]

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12:58:46 [fsasaki]

present: karl, yves, felix

12:58:50 [Yves_]

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12:59:10 [Yves_]

present+ Yves_

13:00:13 [fsasaki]

topic: work plan / agenda check

13:00:20 [fsasaki]

waiting for people to come ...

13:00:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki

13:03:51 [fsasaki]

present+ dave

13:05:19 [fsasaki]

topic: Global rules for provenance discussion

13:05:37 [fsasaki]

basis for discussion is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0186.html

13:05:42 [fsasaki]

dave: yves' points are correct

13:05:55 [fsasaki]

.. there is no way of writing a global pointer rule which is aware of values in the xliff

13:06:40 [fsasaki]

.. even if we could figure out the xpath, you would need something in the rule to filter out things in the phase group that did not map to "revision"

13:06:59 [fsasaki]

.. because you cannot differentiate phase groups in the way needed

13:07:09 [fsasaki]

present+ david

13:07:20 [fsasaki]

dave: this topic, plus toolsRef issues

13:07:47 [fsasaki]

.. plus if you want to do mapping between phase group and rules, you need more than pointer rules

13:07:55 [fsasaki]

.. I'd say let's get rid of pointer rules

13:08:00 [fsasaki]

.. appart of standoff pointers

13:08:07 [dF]

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13:08:44 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#provenance-global

13:08:52 [fsasaki]

"provenanceRecordsRefPointer"

13:09:36 [daveL]

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13:11:02 [fsasaki]

everything else would be deleted. That is: "personPointer, personRefPointer, orgPointer, orgRefPointer, toolPointer, toolRefPointer, revPersonPointer, revPersonRefPointer, revOrgPointer, revOrgRefPointer, revToolPointer, revToolRefPointer and provRefPointer"

13:12:02 [fsasaki]

action: jirka to take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account

13:12:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-325 - Take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].

13:12:05 [pnietoca]

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13:12:26 [fsasaki]

present+ jirka

13:13:29 [pnietoca]

present+ pnietoca

13:13:36 [pnietoca]

sorry i'm late

13:14:43 [Jirka]

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13:15:00 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#notation-terminology

13:18:21 [fsasaki]

drop relax ng namespace, not used in the spec

13:19:27 [fsasaki]

added html namespace

13:20:42 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-schemalanguage

13:21:27 [fsasaki]

dropping complete section

13:22:09 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-datacat

13:23:41 [fsasaki]

"The concept of a data category is independent of its implementation in an XML environment" > The concept of a data category is independent of its implementation in an XML and HTML environment"

13:24:24 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-selection

13:24:48 [fsasaki]

"parts of an XML document " > "parts of an XML or HTML document"

13:26:56 [fsasaki]

"Selection relies on the information that is given in the XML Information Set [XML Infoset]. ITS applications MAY implement inclusion mechanisms such as XInclude or DITA's [DITA 1.0] conref."

13:27:29 [fsasaki]

drop the paragraph

13:28:50 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

13:29:18 [fsasaki]

action: felix to update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

13:29:18 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-326 - Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].

13:31:32 [fsasaki]

action-326: not needed, handled during editing call

13:31:32 [trackbot]

ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage notes added

13:31:37 [fsasaki]

close action-326

13:31:37 [trackbot]

ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage closed

13:33:36 [fsasaki]

dropped attribute list, reffering now only to RELAX NG schema and the anyURI data types

13:33:40 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance

13:34:54 [fsasaki]

make sure that everything will say "HTML" or "HTML5"?

13:35:14 [fsasaki]

jirka: w3c working group said they will use html versioning

13:35:26 [fsasaki]

.. to avoid perception that ITS cannot be applied to HTML6

13:35:42 [fsasaki]

david: future proof is good

13:35:50 [fsasaki]

.. but it is not valid HTML4

13:35:57 [fsasaki]

.. you could say "HTML5 and higher"

13:36:34 [fsasaki]

karl: could say HTML and in an introduction we say "HTML is defined by HTML5 or its successor"

13:40:02 [fsasaki]

added a subsection in the terminology section, see www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##def-html

13:42:31 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-schema

13:43:32 [fsasaki]

"[Ed. note: Below statement about schemas is wrong if the ITS schemas will be normative.]": deleting note

13:44:10 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##conformance-product-processing-expectations

13:44:38 [fsasaki]

"[Ed. note: All traces of HTML has to be removed if we will proceed with CT 3 and HTML+ITS CC.]": note from Jirka

13:45:04 [fsasaki]

everyone is happy with separate html confirmance type, so can remove note

13:48:14 [fsasaki]

deleting all traces of HTML and HTML5 in this section, since there is now a separate conformacne type for html5

13:49:56 [Yves_]

https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite

13:51:26 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-html-processing-expectations

13:53:26 [fsasaki]

discussed "processing expecations" vs "processing requirements", might change terminology (not normative def) during last call

13:55:05 [fsasaki]

action: Jirka to go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML

13:55:06 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-327 - Go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].

13:56:18 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#its-processing

13:57:48 [fsasaki_]

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13:58:03 [Yves_]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:58:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html Yves_

13:58:24 [fsasaki_]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategory-locations

14:00:32 [fsasaki]

discussion on "standoff markup", related to "location", but somehow different, not added here

14:05:33 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##selection-global

14:06:50 [fsasaki]

delete ruby mentions throughout section 5.2

14:07:27 [Yves_]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:07:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html Yves_

14:09:20 [fsasaki]

"The content model of span permits arbitrary nesting of ruby markup, since the rt element can contain span. An application of ruby, however, MUST not use such arbitrary nesting.": deleted, ruby not needed here

14:12:11 [fsasaki]

topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors

14:16:37 [fsasaki]

"The following attributes point to existing information:": deleted pointer attributes not needed anymore

14:17:14 [fsasaki]

.. after the "pointer in provenacne" discussion today

14:17:41 [fsasaki]

"5.3.3 CSS Selectors"

14:18:17 [fsasaki]

"5.3.4 Additional query languages"

14:18:39 [fsasaki]

"5.3.5 Variables in selectors"

14:21:33 [fsasaki]

topic: "5.4 Link to External Rules"

14:23:48 [fsasaki]

action: felix to create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 - due 15 december

14:23:48 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-328 - create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].

14:24:27 [fsasaki]

topic: "5.5 Precedence between Selections"

14:26:48 [fsasaki]

"Implicit Local selection in documents" > not inherited local selection is meant?

14:29:10 [fsasaki]

"Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via local ITS markup in documents

14:29:24 [fsasaki]

"Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via explicit (that is not inherited) local ITS markup in documents

14:31:35 [fsasaki]

keep as is, may clarify during LC phase

14:31:37 [pnietoca]

the same happens in point 7.5

14:32:13 [pnietoca]

so if you're going to change it you have to change both

14:33:30 [fsasaki]

tx, pnietoca, will take that into account during LC too

14:33:57 [fsasaki]

topic: "5.6 Associating ITS Data Categories with Existing Markup"

14:34:35 [pnietoca]

sorry folks I have to leave, besides my microphone it's not working I don't know why!, I'm trying to speak but I can't

14:34:48 [pnietoca]

I hope to have it fixed next time

14:34:49 [fsasaki]

sure, thanks for being here, pnietoca!

14:35:36 [pnietoca]

anyway I 'll send a number of misprints and other things I noticed during the revision

14:35:43 [pnietoca]

to the list

14:35:51 [pnietoca]

cheers, bye!

14:36:48 [fsasaki]

discussing position of sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5"

14:36:51 [daveL]

suggest text for last note in 5.5, change "and these are overridden via local markup." to "which are in turn overridden by local markup"

14:37:37 [fsasaki]

done

14:40:19 [fsasaki]

sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5" is now sec 6, old sec 6 is sec 7

14:40:48 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:40:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki

14:42:06 [fsasaki]

sec 8 about xhtml now also moved, is new sec 7, old sec 6 is sec 8

14:43:32 [fsasaki]

topic: 5.7 Conversion to NIF

14:43:52 [fsasaki]

remove mentions of ontology

14:50:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki

14:50:42 [fsasaki]

1 hour break

14:50:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki

16:00:50 [Yves_]

Sorry: i wasn't able to do diddly-squat on updating the provenance section

16:02:20 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conversion-to-nif

16:04:59 [fsasaki]

topic: "5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"

16:09:58 [fsasaki]

dave, felix - need a running list of all the MUST statements and make sure that we have a test

16:10:01 [fsasaki]

topic: test suite

16:10:53 [fsasaki]

"The data category identifier MUST be one of the following identifiers" example of a statement that needs testing to

16:11:17 [fsasaki]

action: felix to come up with running list of MUST statements for testing - due december 15

16:11:18 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-329 - come up with running list of MUST statements for testing [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].

16:18:27 [fsasaki]

action: felix to move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories

16:18:27 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-330 - Move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].

16:19:39 [fsasaki]

replacing lq-issues with lq-issue in identifer list

16:26:57 [Jirka]

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16:28:48 [fsasaki]

"Inline global rules MUST be specified inside script which has type attribute with the value application/xml or application/its+xml. "

16:29:39 [fsasaki]

in 6.3 Inline Global Rules in HTML5

16:30:58 [fsasaki]

"with the value application/xml or application/its+xml." > "with the value application/its+xml."

16:36:07 [fsasaki]

"The script element itself MUST be child of head element." > "The script element itself SHOULD be child of head element."

16:36:37 [fsasaki]

6.4 Standoff Markup in HTML5

16:38:16 [fsasaki]

"In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script element with its id attribute that MUST be set to the same value as the xml:id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it contains." > "In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script element. It MUST have a type attribute with the value application/its+xml. Its id attribute that MUST be set to the same value as the...

16:38:17 [fsasaki]

...xml:id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it contains."

16:41:07 [fsasaki]

same change for lq issue

16:43:15 [fsasaki]

"6.5 Precedence between Selections"

16:48:04 [fsasaki]

"Note: If identical selections are defined in different rules elements within one document, the selection defined by the last takes precedence.": removing the note in sec. 5.5 Precedence between Selections

16:48:19 [fsasaki]

same for 6.5 Precedence between Selections

16:50:22 [fsasaki]

added note from XML section 5.5 "ITS does not define precedence related to rules defined or linked based on non-ITS mechanisms (such as processing instructions for linking rules)." to HTML section 6.5

16:51:01 [fsasaki]

"7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML"

16:52:35 [fsasaki]

action: karl to create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML

16:52:35 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-331 - Create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML [on Karl Fritsche - due 2012-12-04].

16:55:16 [fsasaki]

topic: next call

16:55:25 [fsasaki]

karl could do wed, felix not wed, but thur

16:55:41 [fsasaki]

dave from 1-3 p.m. utc

16:55:45 [fsasaki]

on thursday

16:55:48 [fsasaki]

and wed too

16:56:13 [fsasaki]

yves better on wed

16:57:29 [fsasaki]

felix on thur 2 p.m. utc - later

16:58:08 [fsasaki]

yves: will modify proveance ot remove pointers

16:58:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki

16:59:15 [Yves_]

Felix: I'll wait until you push the updated spec to CVS to do the provenance. But no rush.

17:00:00 [fsasaki]

np, just pushed to cvs

17:00:13 [fsasaki]

thanks for the reminder

17:00:43 [Yves_]

great. thanks.