Internationalization WG TPAC

02 Nov 2012

See also: IRC log


Richard, Norbert, Koji, Fantasai, Addison
Addison Phillips
Addison Phillips


<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip


HTML / I18N meeting notes review

richard: don't think ruby should be marked at risk
... some ideas that would be great to implement
... but not in the time needed
... and maybe not defined by then either
... need ruby, double-sided ruby
... so need to move forward

norbert: hoping for some quick way to fix it

richard: hoping what fantasai produces would be on top of current implementation
... extension spec would be an alternative, but not removing anything
... should say "disagree that we agree with 'at risk'"
... if can't be produced in current time frame, expect that current design is used
... want double-sides in html5
... without being at risk

fantasai: think we can get a draft out by end of the year
... with double-sided
... compatible with what is already deployed
... nesting might be at risk

richard: mobilizing folks to work on ruby
... fantasai should be hooked up with them
... outline soonest would be good

fantasai: can make outline by end of month-ish
... easier to explain in person than via email

(discussion of cast of implementers)

richard: key thing: don't want to end up with no complex ruby
... must get over hurdles with html5 and html.next

Norbert: local/floating time implementations
... issue 97 needs more text (locale negotiation)

addison: read bcp47 as rfc6067
... ?

richard: said "rest of WG doesn't agree me with, but think use calendar attr"
... didn't go into details
... will track cameron down

[[ WG heads off to meet with XLIFF folk ]]

<r12a> addison, you there?

<r12a> hey addison !


ready for more?

<r12a> yep

case sensitivity in CSS

Norbert: (summarizes)
... Tab prefers ASCII-sensitivity only
... our preference seems to be Unicode case folding
... has a few problems for Lt and Turkish

richard: is there is a possibility that we don't do case-insensitive stuff at all
... name counter styles need to be case-insensitive for existing items
... so liimit to just those defined by CSS?
... or extend to ASCII in general? Or to everything?

<Norbert> CSS has already decided:

<Norbert> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0899.html

richard: case insensitivity, with type to be defined
... minimum is only existing items are case insensitive
... Tab's preference was ASCII case insensitive
... implication was make everything insensitive
... if use case folding for full Unicode range, then turkic languages and lithuanian have problems

addison: ASCII case insense sometimes a problem in Turkish too
... users never see the case folded value?

norbert: some way to access it

koji: case folding slow?
... incomplete by design
... don't think it makes sense

richard: HIT -> hit but not h\u0131t

addison: that case never works with ASCII case-insensitive either

koji: support ASCII case insensitivty only for backwards compatibility
... not much use anyway, slightly better performance

rÖman vs. RÖMAN

Deutschland matches deutschland

but Österreich doesn't match....

(involved discussion)

consensus: full Unicode case folding without special cases

scribe: and add a note for Turkic languages

<scribe> ACTION: richard: tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding [on Richard Ishida - due 2012-11-09].


<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/open?sort=product

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/166

significant change

close ISSUE-166

<trackbot> ISSUE-166 isolate and direction property location closed

richard: needs a new review


addison: why not have REAL text there

actual WG is http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/

issue linked to an antique draft

close ISSUE-10

<trackbot> ISSUE-10 Use of case in bidi examples closed

first green box in section 2.1

The ‘direction’ property has no effect on bidi reordering when specified on inline elements whose ‘unicode-bidi’ property's value is ‘normal’.

<p dir=ltr">foo bar baz <span dir=rtl>FOO BAR BAE</span></p>

<p> dir=ltr><span dir=rtl>this has an ltr base direction</span></p>

addison: really needs some explanation, as the meaning isn't clear


richard: options are leave as is or add text
... normal (comma) <explain a bit>
... "because the inline element doesn't open a new embedding level"

marking 12 as fixed


close ISSUE-13

<trackbot> ISSUE-13 Incorrect U+XXX notation closed

ISSUE-13 fixed


ISSUE-11 is fixed

close ISSUE-11

<trackbot> ISSUE-11 Bidi algorithm boundaries closed


ISSUE-14 being discussed

there is text in place

This value has no effect on elements that are not inline.

close ISSUE-14

<trackbot> ISSUE-14 Embed and block-level elements closed


close ISSUE-16

<trackbot> ISSUE-16 Describe value inherit closed

<r12a> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#direction

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: richard: tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012/11/02 16:18:51 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/antique/antique draft/
Found Scribe: Addison Phillips
Found ScribeNick: aphillip
Default Present: Addison_Phillips, St_Clair_5
Present: Richard Norbert Koji Fantasai Addison
Got date from IRC log name: 02 Nov 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html
People with action items: richard

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]