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13:38:45 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization WG TPAC
13:38:54 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
13:39:19 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:39:21 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
13:39:28 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
13:39:39 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:41:51 <aphillip>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012OctDec/0036.html
13:42:13 <aphillip> Topic: HTML / I18N meeting notes review
13:42:26 <aphillip> richard: don't think ruby should be marked at risk
13:42:44 <aphillip> ... some ideas that would be great to implement
13:42:49 <aphillip> ... but not in the time needed
13:43:02 <aphillip> ... and maybe not defined by then either
13:43:13 <aphillip> ... need ruby, double-sided ruby
13:43:19 <aphillip> ... so need to move forward
13:43:42 <aphillip> norbert: hoping for some quick way to fix it
13:44:17 <aphillip> richard: hoping what fantasai produces would be on top of current implementation
13:45:43 <aphillip> ... extension spec would be an alternative, but not removing anything
13:46:17 <aphillip> ... should say "disagree that we agree with 'at risk'"
13:46:42 <aphillip> ... if can't be produced in current time frame, expect that current design is used
13:46:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:47:28 <aphillip> Present: Richard, Norbert, Koji, Fantasai, Addison
13:48:02 <aphillip> richard: want double-sides in html5
13:48:26 <aphillip> ... without being at risk
13:51:29 <aphillip> fantasai: think we can get a draft out by end of the year
13:51:39 <aphillip> ... with double-sided
13:51:49 <aphillip> ... compatible with what is already deployed
13:52:02 <aphillip> ... nesting might be at risk
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13:52:21 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:52:48 <aphillip> richard: mobilizing folks to work on ruby
13:53:02 <aphillip> ... fantasai should be hooked up with them
13:53:10 <aphillip> ... outline soonest would be good
13:53:17 <aphillip> fantasai: can make outline by end of month-ish
13:53:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:54:20 <aphillip> ... easier to explain in person than via email
13:55:05 <aphillip> (discussion of cast of implementers)
13:55:59 <aphillip> richard: key thing: don't want to end up with no complex ruby
13:56:16 <aphillip> ... must get over hurdles with html5 and html.next
13:59:24 <aphillip> Norbert: local/floating time implementations
14:00:18 <aphillip> ... issue 97 needs more text (locale negotiation)
14:01:07 <aphillip> addison: read bcp47 as rfc6067
14:01:11 <aphillip> ... ?
14:01:37 <aphillip> richard: said "rest of WG doesn't agree me with, but think use calendar attr"
14:01:44 <aphillip> ... didn't go into details
14:01:50 <aphillip> ... will track cameron down
14:03:20 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
14:03:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:03:27 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
14:03:48 <aphillip> [[ WG heads off to meet with XLIFF folk ]]
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14:43:01 <r12a> addison, you there?
14:45:05 <r12a> hey addison !
14:45:24 <aphillip> howdy
14:45:32 <aphillip> ready for more?
14:45:34 <r12a> yep
14:46:00 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
14:46:24 <aphillip> Topic: case sensitivity in CSS
14:47:01 <aphillip> Norbert: (summarizes)
14:47:17 <aphillip> ... Tab prefers ASCII-sensitivity only
14:47:31 <aphillip> ... our preference seems to be Unicode case folding
14:47:45 <aphillip> ... has a few problems for Lt and Turkish
14:48:03 <aphillip> richard: is there is a possibility that we don't do case-insensitive stuff at all
14:48:18 <aphillip> ... name counter styles need to be case-insensitive for existing items
14:48:35 <aphillip> ... so liimit to just those defined by CSS?
14:48:46 <aphillip> ... or extend to ASCII in general? Or to everything?
14:49:32 <Norbert> CSS has already decided:
14:49:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:49:33 <Norbert> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0899.html
14:50:18 <aphillip> ... case insensitivity, with type to be defined
14:50:45 <aphillip> richard: minimum is only existing items are case insensitive
14:51:16 <aphillip> ... Tab's preference was ASCII case insensitive
14:51:30 <aphillip> ... implication was make everything insensitive
14:52:27 <aphillip> ... if use case folding for full Unicode range, then turkic languages and lithuanian have problems
14:53:21 <aphillip> addison: ASCII case insense sometimes a problem in Turkish too
14:54:40 <aphillip> addison: users never see the case folded value?
14:55:07 <aphillip> norbert: some way to access it
14:55:41 <aphillip> koji: case folding slow?
14:56:31 <aphillip> ... incomplete by design
14:56:37 <aphillip> ... don't think it makes sense
15:01:16 <aphillip> richard: HIT -> hit but not h\u0131t
15:02:42 <aphillip> addison: that case never works with ASCII case-insensitive either
15:04:13 <aphillip> koji: support ASCII case insensitivty only for backwards compatibility
15:04:31 <aphillip> ... not much use anyway, slightly better performance
15:10:41 <aphillip> rÖman vs. RÖMAN
15:11:09 <aphillip> Deutschland matches deutschland
15:11:20 <aphillip> but Österreich doesn't match....
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15:21:28 <aphillip> (involved discussion)
15:30:28 <aphillip> consensus: full Unicode case folding without special cases
15:30:34 <aphillip> ... and add a note for Turkic languages
15:31:09 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding
15:31:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding [on Richard Ishida - due 2012-11-09].
15:31:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:32:24 <aphillip> Topic: bugs
15:33:35 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/open?sort=product
15:35:03 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/166
15:35:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:36:27 <aphillip> significant change
15:36:41 <aphillip> close ISSUE-166
15:36:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-166 isolate and direction property location closed
15:36:53 <aphillip> richard: needs a new review
15:38:16 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/10
15:39:53 <aphillip> addison: why not have REAL text there
15:41:11 <aphillip> actual WG is http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/
15:41:21 <aphillip> issue linked to an antique
15:41:33 <aphillip> s/antique/antique draft/
15:42:20 <aphillip> close ISSUE-10
15:42:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 Use of case in bidi examples closed
15:44:56 <aphillip> first green box in section 2.1
15:44:58 <aphillip> The ‘direction’ property has no effect on bidi reordering when specified on inline elements whose ‘unicode-bidi’ property's value is ‘normal’.
15:46:34 <aphillip> <p dir=ltr">foo bar baz <span dir=rtl>FOO BAR BAE</span></p>
15:48:17 <aphillip> <p> dir=ltr><span dir=rtl>this has an ltr base direction</span></p>
15:49:57 <aphillip> addison: really needs some explanation, as the meaning isn't clear
15:50:28 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/12
15:51:53 <aphillip> richard: options are leave as is or add text
15:52:08 <aphillip> ... normal (comma) <explain a bit>
15:52:49 <aphillip> ... "because the inline element doesn't open a new embedding level"
15:55:19 <aphillip> marking 12 as fixed
15:56:13 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/13
15:56:59 <aphillip> close ISSUE-13
15:56:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 Incorrect U+XXX notation closed
15:57:43 <aphillip> ISSUE-13 fixed
15:58:02 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/11
15:59:32 <aphillip> ISSUE-11 is fixed
15:59:43 <aphillip> close ISSUE-11
15:59:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 Bidi algorithm boundaries closed
16:00:08 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:00:35 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/14
16:00:58 <aphillip> ISSUE-14 being discussed
16:03:10 <aphillip> there is text in place
16:03:32 <aphillip> This value has no effect on elements that are not inline.
16:03:39 <aphillip> close ISSUE-14
16:03:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 Embed and block-level elements closed
16:03:55 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/16
16:06:25 <aphillip> close ISSUE-16
16:06:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-16 Describe value inherit closed
16:15:39 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:15:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:16:09 <r12a> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#direction
16:18:34 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
16:18:36 <Zakim> -St_Clair_5
16:18:37 <Zakim> I18N_WG()6:00AM has ended
16:18:37 <Zakim> Attendees were Addison_Phillips, St_Clair_5
16:18:46 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
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