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<scribe> scribe: Alan
Karen: Welcome to the session. One of the industries we looked at was Digital Marketing. We formed a Task Force of some of my associates.
Giri: Introduces self and QIC
DavidE: Introduces self and Natl Conv Stores
Chair+ Carl Cargill
DavidE: Part of this is about outreach, all those people who care about the Web and don't know how much they do
Carl: Introduces self and Adobe
Karen: Points to list of attendees
[go around the table and introduce themselves]
Karen: Good to hear where you are coming from. We're going through a short presentation to set context. Then discussion.
[Why Digital Marketing at W3C]
[Digital Marketing slide]
[Digital Marketing Mix]
[Current W3C Work Relevant to Marketers]
[Immediate Opportunity for W3C to Lay Foundation]
[Potential Areas of Standardization 1]
[Potential Areas of Standardization 2]
[Potential Areas of Standardization 3]
[Potential Areas of Standardization 4]
Karen: Current analytic and measurements are proprietary formats.
Carl: Also is there a standard
way to track or even quatify / definie tracking now.
... The definitions are not universal yet. The terms are all reasonably non-standard.
[Potential Areas of Standardization 5]
[Potential Scope of Workshops]
[Proposal for Workshops]
Karen: These assumptions led us
to talking to the broader eco-system.
... That's what we've been doing since July.
[very busy slide of ecosystem]
[Start Conversations with Marketing Community]
[Digital Marketing Agencies]
Karen: The DMAs, unless they were
geeky, were kind of clueless.
... Didn't know about W3C or why we were there.
... We're only doing native apps for our brands.
[Media Agency Pain Points]
Karen: These represent the thinking of some agencies and what their painpoints are.
Carl: The important point is that
the four major groups are in this conversation.
... This structure has existed from the 1920's and is why they have the power they do.
... The 'Madison Avenue' model. This is how they do advertising.
[Creative Agency Pain Points]
Karen: They have told us to stay
away, they don't need us, etc.
... Some of this we expected due to W3C work on DNT.
... Others are stuck in old-world model.
Karen: This group is moving to
... They want to reduce their cost. Write once and appear everywhere.
... They are feeling the pain in the time delay and cost delay in not having a standard approach.
[Client Pain Points]
[Publishers, Media Owners]
Karen: This group is having
problems with workflow and the information everyone puts on
... Who owns the data?
[Where do we go from here discussion?]
Karen: We need to engage in conversations with people who understand this and want to enhance their business with it.
Carl: If you look at the diagram
with pain points they all look at current business
... The Web may end up getting rid of some of those layers.
... There historically has been that there is no communication between the groups.
... But the media is not that distinct any more.
... So the question is how does the Web fit in this?
... How do we flip the switch from being seen as a threat to see how we add value to make it better.
Giri: slide 21. Part of my
experience at QIC is that some of the technologies we needed
weren't there and we had to build them from scratch.
... It was proprietary and everyone had their own implementations.
... I think there is meat for some sort of standardization there.
DavidE: As a representative of
some of the Brands, I'm both their representative and their
... I show up and show them whey they should worry about some of these problems.
... Having a standard and consistent way to deliver across the platforms for the brand.
... W3C has a different way of looking at things.
... Using WAI as a touchpoint, we want to make sure the tools we provide make it easy to implement accessibility to lower the hurdles to entry.
... Consistency is a key part of implementation. The Web solves this better than any proprietary implementation.
... Their is a lot of buyers and suppliers.
... These systems have sold for about $4K per system.
... The ROI is way to big to swallow.
... How they get around it is to come to the advertising budget.
... Some have started giving the technology away because of the revenue they make from this.
... I think we need to get in front of this because we can't allow proprietary systems to hit.
... You have to make sure you hit the brain of the consumer.
... We can help brands assure they get there.
... Privacy is a prickly subject. A lot of affinity analysis shows what was bought by what. Not the who.
... The stakes in this are high.
... The play for W3C is to be nearby Switzerland to say here are the standards.
... And accessibility to all this media is a message to all these brands.
... Put in that prospective we have a unique value to offer.
[gives example of spend in Las Vegas]
SteveH: Introduces himself and roles at W3C
Carl: The whole digital marketing
... Adobe is heavy in analytics and it's a proprietary world now.
... What we don't have a clear grasp of is where the analytics is going in the next 5 years.
... Big Data, and privacy.
... How do you capture it, use it and what can you do about it.
... W3C is in the middle of this wether they want to be or not.
... It's going to be highly explosive in next 5 years.
... Then there is the creative aspects.
... They are being pushed by the number of platforms, etc. they can support and still be valid.
... Have been standardizing on pixels.
... Standardizing form factors is hardware, not software.
... The Web is about software standardization.
... Much of the pain is in software and mutations.
... A problem between infinite cost and infinite market.
... We don't have, or know of, a matchpoint.
Karen: So we want to open this for discussion.
Greg: From my prospective, we see
a delima between the privacy issue and standardization.
... An intersection may not be best for advertizers.
@@@: I saw advertising in the web as the benefit of most of the companies.
scribe: In this model, the Web,
it's for most companies benefit.
... I don't think this model is very esy to follow.
BernardO: I agree that one very
important point is BigData.
... There is the ability to extract data and have a more focused advertising.
... There are new technologies, we need to have a balance between DNT and Privacy.
... We have a very big increase in advertising by video.
... It is a most attractive market but there are many problems.
... We have to work with videos on how to involve advertising.
... It will be reinforced by arrival of SmartTV.
... One of the business models is to make money on ads of the TV.
Carl: If you look at the static
model we currently have is there are no feedback loops.
... That's the beauty of the Web.
... Advertisers want the immediate feedback, but it's now illegal because it's a privacy issue.
... This overlaps with DNT issues. What does tracking really mean?
... Issue with BigData is do you really have privacy.
... Does aggregated data have the same privacy issues as personal data.
... Remove a couple of layers and people have quicker feedback.
... But to get there it's massively disruptive to the current models.
... It's a multi-billion dollar industry.
Karen: Someone said "when we need your skills we'll call you"
BernardO: We need identify market leaders / innovators to lead this.
SteveH: IBM agrees this is a huge
area. Lots of companies making lots of money.
... One thing we realize is you can't go in and disrupt this.
... We believe there are tiny steps that will help all sides deal with this in an organized fashion.
... We did a member submission on data acquisition.
... It's about having a standard approach to java objects on these servers.
... It allows analytics to proprietary but standardizeds the data gathering.
SteveH: We're proposing a new CG
to be formed.
... It's called Customer Experience Digital Data.
... It's a way to get started quickly.
... And allows non-W3C members to participate.
... We'd like to get it going and make it more acceptable.
... Have a standard that moves into the Rec track if appropriate.
... A way of getting more eyeballs on it to fine tune it.
... We have two additional drafts in this space.
... It could result in bringing some of the people the table that aren't here today.
Carl: The issue though is that the center of this is, what DNT is finding out, what the nature of data is.
<SteveH_> link to IBM Member Submission "Customer Experience Digital Data Acquisition" specification: http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/04/
Carl: How private is the data.
Who's data is it? That's the crux of the matter.
... That's a statement that says when data comes in, it comes in this way.
... I thought it was a good approach.
SteveH: It's a way of taking a
step in this direction.
... It lifts the platform up to say let's compete on the analysis, not the collection.
DavidE: The word we're talking
about is transparency.
... If someone joins from a defensive position, that's OK.
... W3C should not get into policy.
Carl: DNT does not express a policy, it's a standard. How it can be used sets a policy.
DavidE: The sentence expresses a
policy "Do Not Track".
... As Regan said "Trust but veryify" in this case it's "Track but verify".
Karen: Time check. Was hoping we
could come to some consensus or not.
... Steve mentioned the CG, but should we think of forming a CG for the interoperabilty side.
... Do we continue to pursue the original goals of a Workshop.
... Do we go to existing work and ask them to form an advertising component.
SteveH: Would it be worth tying into DNT and Beyond to get input.
Carl: I think DNT Is poison.
We're finding out the brands are getting fed up with the
... This is the only chance everyone has to play to get a good solution.
... Anyone who chooses not to play does so at their own risk.
... I think a solution will come of this, and without cooperation it will be highly disruptive.
DavidE: I think the Workshop approach is good. We have to find ways to get the right people there.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Alan Inferring ScribeNick: Alan WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: BernardO Carl DavidE Giri Greg Karen SteveH SteveH_ chong dbaron digitalm evanlee gmandyam gwestneat joined leehom tpacbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Got date from IRC log name: 31 Oct 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-digitalm-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]