mbrubeck, can you try calling in now? I think you will be connected to #webapps but just come here for the PointerEvents gathering. OK?

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Date: 30 October 2012

<scribe> Agenda: no formal agenda ...

<adrianba> Microsoft submisson http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/03/

<adrianba> Spec http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-pointer-events-20120907/

Adrian: want apps to be able to write against a variety of pointer devices

… existing APIs for touch are difficult to use

… it was a difficult API to design

… we think this one works well with existing content

… that uses mouse events

… The goal of our Submission was to get others together

… to build something that is interoperable.

… The spec is modeled after mouse events

… one key take away is you can choose if you work against mouse or pointer events

… and can receive both types of message

… (need this for app that only supports mouse events).

… A strength is just one code path for events.

… Not just a single touch but multi touch and multiple input devices

… Events identify the type of event

… and that should be extensible

… not just pen, mouse, etc.

Adrian: there are controlling aspects too e.g. panning, scrolling

… we added what we think is the minimum needed

Jacob: that's a good summary

… Goal is to have just one Pointer model

… Realize though that in the short term, devs will have to deal with "legacy" events

… Want it to work with sites regardless of pointer devices used

Matt: one issue I'd like to raise ...

… in addition to mouse legacy, there will be touch events legacy to consider too

… think the spec will have to deal with those interactions too

Jacob: we haven't worked that out yet

Adrian: we've heard that feedback before

… but we haven't done the investigation

… and agree the group will have to do some investigation there

Adrian: comments, questions

Rick: one of the challenges with touch events is not blocking on scroll events

… think pointer events helps there

[ Scribe missed some of Rick's points … ]

Jacob: pointer events does address Rick

Rick: we have some apps that want to interupt scrolling

<adrianba> Rick's point was about allowing performant scrolling/panning from the UA while giving apps the JavaScript events when they want them

Jacob: we have talked about how to handle interupts for panning, scrolling

… there are issues with multiple threads

<adrianba> touch-action is related to this: http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-pointer-events-20120907/#the-touch-action-css-property

… think we should think about those cases

… Need to make sure we solve any related performance probs

Rick: agree performance is primary consideration

Lachlan: why introduce new events that mirror existing event (e.g. mouseup) rather than extending existing events?

Jacob: PE does inherit mouse events

… but multi touch, multi pointer creates probs for mouse events

Lachlan: ok

Doug: make sense Lachy?

Lachlan: yes

Art: Doug, can you say anything about the status of the proposed PE WG?

Doug: several Members responded (~8)

… got all positive support

… there were no objections from W3C management

… my expectation is the WG will be approved

… and that should happened "ASAP"

Doug: re the Web Events WG ...

<odinho_> RRSAgent: make minutes

… they are working on Touch Events

… the v1 spec is in Candidate Recommendation

… after v1 goes to Recommendation, we expect the WG to close

… and hence we will do no additional work on Touch Events v2

… Think PE spec is a good way forward.

… Re the IndieUI work, the PE WG will not have any formal joint work with IndieUI

… although we will notify them of PE WG's early drafts.

… I would like to see PE WG get a First Public WD published as soon as possible

Adrian: we don't want to see massive changes to PE spec

… we think it is a good foundation

… we do expect some changes

… even though that will affect our current implementation

Doug: thanks Adrian, that's helpful

Asir: when is the W3C management meeting?

<jrossi> asir

Doug: because of TPAC week, not this week

… but we are making it a priority

… perhaps a decision as early as next week

Art: I think Doug is saying next week is the absolute best case

<jrossi> Thanks for a PST friendly time! :-)

<ojan> Regarding touch events, of the WebKit reviewers looking at the spec really wanted to see the spec cover how pointer events interact with touch events, i.e. the touch event equivalent one of http://www.w3.org/Submission/pointer-events/#compatibility-mapping-with-mouse-events

Art: send comments to public-pointer-events

<smaug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events

Doug: send comments to the list

… I want to thank Microsoft for making this Submission

… I really appreciate it

Jacob: looking forward to working for you

Art: Gathering Adjourned

<asir> Thank you everyone!

<ojan> +1 to thanking MS for this submission

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Present: Art_Barstow Mike_Smith Anne_van_Kesteren Anssi_Kostiainen Lachlan_Hunt Odin Alex_Russell Jonas_Sicking Simon_Pieters Olli_Pettay Robin_Berjon Adrian_Bateman Henri_Sivonen Soonbo_Han Sangwhan_Moon Cathy_Chan Matt_Brubeck Rick_Byers Jacob_Rossi Ojan_Vafai Daniel_Freedman Asir Selvasingh Sakari_Poussa Doug_Schepers
Found Date: 30 Oct 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/30-webevents-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report