<Joshue108> * https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/

<Joshue108> *Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.

<scribe> scribenick: Detlev

*Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/results

Mark: has comments on techniques proposed (looking)
... We should have siple examples that don"t get buried under scripting

james: Some examples can do without DOM scripting

Loretta: agrees

<jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_WAI-ARIA_range_attributes_for_range_widgets_such_as_progressbar,_scrollbar,_slider,_and_spinbutton

Discussing range techniques (Loretta)

Josh: Does show real-word implementation

Loretta: suggests the existing example but add a simpler one as well
... struggeld to make it fit into error handling

Josh: how does this example fit into error handling?

Loretta: Let the browser provide error handling (above or below min and max)

James: the browser won"t do anything with the aria values...
... AT can support handing of input
... thinks it better fits into Labels & instructions 3.3.2

<jamesn> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120103/minimize-error-suggestions.html

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/minimize-error-suggestions.html

<Joshue108> SNAP

Josh: input errors creating automatic errorsuggestions..?

james: the widgets wold need scripting to provide that

Marc: does it need scripting to us min and max value?

James: the screenreader would not automatically reject input outside the range

Josh: we should try to minimise scripting in examples where possilbe

Marc: scrioting in range example shows to dynamically add min and max and current values but it isn't doing any error checking

James: in the exisitng openajax examples it is impossilbe to enter an incorrect value

Loretta: falls into error prevention category

things in the descriotion would need more scripting to be implemented - begs the question where the resource is to implement that

that was Josh

LOretta: does anyone know code we could referrence?

Josh: check current value should be role of the assistive technology

James: explains what values do in assistive technoogy (too much too quick to write down)...

<Joshue108> http://hanshillen.github.com/jqtest/#goto_slider

Josh: discusses Hans hillen example

Loretta: add as resouce

James page up and page down the wrong way round?..

Lorett: do we need to add error checking code?

Loratta: or should it be a separate technique?

Josh: Separate tech, but connected
... will need to be taken up by AT to become useful
... JAWS support doc doesn't even mention min/max

<jamesn> http://files.freedomscientific.com/beta/JAWS/StartM/ARIA_JAWS14.htm

Josh: that may have changed with JAWS 14 (better ARIA support)

James: runs JAWS 13 on Loretta's page...
... have to start Firefox after JAWs otherwise it doesn't do anything
... didn't read the min and max

(that was JAWS)

Josh: everything by Hans is all scripted it is not yet picked up by screen readers

Loretta: maybe add note that scripting needs to be provided to make it work

Josh: its quite complex - may be put it in the pile and wait for better support?
... may be other better supported examples?

Loretta: the question about the scripting for error checking to make the example work remains, orthogonal
... alert example..

Josh: error message in the message (HTML 5)? light scripting...?

Loretta: merge with other example?

James: points out there is zero support...?
... trying screen reader again to check output

JAWS - "progress bar value in dollars etc ... James no support on VoiceOver

Josh: openajax discussing role: application cursor problem..

Slider shouldn"t be used with role:application

James: you don"t need to goes automatically into forms mode when it encounters such items

Josh: not sure if examples in aria value-min / valuemax are suitable

<Joshue108> http://oaa-accessibility.org/example/32/

James: these examples probab;y can"t be a sufficient technique yet because they are nit sufficiently AT supported
... no luck in NVDA, JAWS and VO

Loretta: lets add what we have learned to User Agent Notes, lets take that to the WG as a general issue

<Joshue108> +1 to Loretta

James: it is often split, some parts might have enough AT support others not

Loretta: well need a generic discussion

Josh will work on the technique

Josh: add note on use of role: application?
... will add note

Loretta: Can contribute to ARIA technology note, independent of any technique

<Joshue108> ACTION: Josh to start work on ARIA notes doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/17-html-techs-tf-minutes.html#action01]

Bby: gotas gottas gottas

Marc: question - was reading in the background - ATs are the ones expected to do the calc for valuenow based on value min and max - correct?

Value text should be used if vlauemin and max are not known

Josh: not sure - not known if AT can do something like that without use of scripting

the are just placeholders for author-specified values which scripting can that use

James: has heard of that percentage calculation

Josh: what context?

james: a value was calculated based on valuue min and max, give out percentage complete

Aside: sory some of the tech parts might be incorrect, not be familiar enough with this stuff...

Josh: discussing TPAC participants

James, Loretta not present then

Small TPAC Meeting Thu 1 November

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/

Josh next action items

*Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.

<Joshue108> Detlev: I am working on updating some techniques.

Josh will do 'sping cleaning', to-do-list

Loretta: is there progrss on active-descendant technique

Josh: will enquire

<Joshue108> Josh: I'll ping Adam to check on his progress

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Found ScribeNick: Detlev
Inferring Scribes: Detlev
Default Present: Joshue, +49.403.17.aaaa, James_Nurthen, Detlev, Loretta, Marc_Johlic
Present: Joshue +49.403.17.aaaa James_Nurthen Detlev Loretta Marc_Johlic
Got date from IRC log name: 17 Sep 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/09/17-html-techs-tf-minutes.html
People with action items: josh

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