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<trackbot> Date: 14 September 2012
<janina> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 14 September 2012
<scribe> scribe: MaryJo
From 17 September onwards Andi should be the focal point for comments.
RESOLUTION: Accept the survey review process with comments from Mike documented in the survey.
<Mike> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/?status=open&
<Mike> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/
Mary Jo and Mike have entered all of the comments from the WCAG2ICT list.
There are now 32 comments logged.
We can now start proposing responses to the comments. Volunteers are needed to help out.
There are more comments from the WCAG20 list that still need to be entered.
However, we can get started on the responses for issues already entered.
We need to figure out how to sort the comments by section to make it easier to group the comments.
<Judy> [Judy replying back with info from Michael, regarding sortability of comments: Use the "search" function to get comment status. (Will not give you section location.) https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-wcag2ict-20120727/search/
<Mike> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120913/results
There is a concern about the circularity of user agent definition using 'content' and 'content' using 'user agent'.
The circularity isn't a major issue, but there is a need for a note to clarify 'user agent' and possibly also 'content' to make it clear how these relate to software.
The note needs some concrete examples to help procurers understand the concept.
A note was proposed. NOTE: Content is not just information but also functionality. So the functionality of software is also content. So information that is not active (has no code) can be information only and not software. But all software is both software and content. Provisions that apply to content would apply to passive documents and software. Provisions that refer to software would not apply to passive documents without interaction (code). An
interactive book and a word processing program would be both software and content. For example: a Text only document would be content but not software. An interactive book and a word processing program would be both software and content aside from any information put in by users. (e.g. dialogs, instructions, form labels etc.)
<scribe> ACTION: korn to Propose note for both 'user agent' and 'content' to clarify software usage; work with Gregg, Loic, Mike - 21 September 2012 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/14-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Propose note for ' user agent' and 'content' to clarify software usage - 21 September 2012 [on Peter Korn - due 2012-09-21].
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120913/results#xq1
The 4.1.2 approach to meeting 2.4.2 breaks down because this SC isn't just for blind people, but is also for sighted people.
For the 4 remaining SC, we can get through them if we examine what they mean.
<korn> Gregg - once you do this overview, I think we need to revisit each of them (likely starting with Page Titled)
2.4.2 Page titled - Web pages are often an entire application, so a software application is parallel to that.
If we don't replace single words but replace a phrase, the other SC become more straightforward to translate - 3.2.3, 2.4.5, and 2.4.1.
The title field is not visible. A document's file name could count. It is the user agent that decides what to show to the user.
WCAG can't control which is shown to the user.
There could be a mode in which the title is shown or not shown. Where does it have to be shown. GUI would have the title in the window title. Mobile doesn't even show the file name or title.
Outside the windowing software world, titles aren't typically shown.
Some commenters on our WCAG2ICT document want to see our thinking on the SC rather than just the word substitutions.
We think about the various use cases, which would be inciteful to others, if documented.
Proposal made to add a rationale to the SC as we work on them and reach resolution, at least for our internal document. We should start by adding a Rationale section in the WIKI.
In this case (SC 2.4.2) in the non-Web world, the title isn't always shown in the window title.
Within a document there could also be a title indicated by using the title styling or attribute at the top of the contents of the document.
A proposal was made to clarify the applicability to documents as updated in the WIKI proposal number 9.
Task force notes were also proposed and added to proposal 9 in the WIKI.
RESOLUTION: Accept 2.4.2 proposal number 9 for electronic documents.
A fundamental difference in many UI's with out titles. They have a distinct look that is different from a normal document interface.
When a dialog pops up that has no titles, but has controls in it - users with low vision that might not see the whole window at once can have difficulty with them.
We need to think about what WCAG is trying to do to help the user. If the purpose of this SC is for orientation, then how do we do this in the software world?
Not discussed
Next meeting is Tuesday 18 September, 2012
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/This isn't a major issue/The circularity isn't a major issue/ Succeeded: s/user agent' / user agent' and 'content' / Succeeded: s/that which/which/ Succeeded: s/file name/file name or title/ Succeeded: s/as proposal/proposal/ Found Scribe: MaryJo Inferring ScribeNick: MaryJo Default Present: Mary_Jo_Mueller, Kiran_Kaja, Shadi, alex_, Mike, Janina_Sajka, greggvanderheiden, David_MacDonald, Peter_Korn, Judy Present: Mary_Jo_Mueller Kiran_Kaja Shadi alex_ Mike Janina_Sajka greggvanderheiden David_MacDonald Peter_Korn Judy Regrets: Andi_Snow-Weaver Loic_Martinez Allan_Hoffman Bruce_Baily Found Date: 14 Sep 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/09/14-wcag2ict-minutes.html People with action items: korn WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]