<trackbot> Date: 10 August 2012

<Andi> scribe: MaryJo

AS: We are making good progress. After today we'll likely have only 4 SC left to work on.

<Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/AUG102012/results

Survey for August 10

AS: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/AUG102012/results#xq1
... Suggestion of an edit for language to match where similar wording is used elsewhere.
... Need to define navigational mechanisms for software.

navigation mechanisms are something to help you navigate and move about within a document

Does this SC mean that if you cover the same topics in a different document, you can't have the topics in a different order.

<Pierce> +q

A set of documents is considered a set if the publisher names them as a set (e.g. a set of 3 documents in a report).

There could be sets of sets of documents (e.g. a set of documents about an application and a set about the operating system).

These sets may be from different publishers and so a violation may be introduced if these are packaged together.

An HTML page is equivalent to a document. If documents are always bundled and authored as a set are meant to be covered by this SC. If they are not authored as a set, but are bundled later this SC doesn't apply.

ISO standards are sold as a set, but often each document in a set are published at a different time and even though the navigational mechanisms are similar, they are often not exactly the same.

<Pierce> +q

Fundamental issue is that the definition of 'set' and what is or is not considered a set could be subject to interpretation.

<Pierce> -q

<Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to ask if we want this to be scoped to pages or documents

<BBailey> Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple pages within a set of pages occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.

<BBailey> Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple documents within a set of documents occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.

<korn> +1 for "documents"

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to suggest that pause/stop is navigation inasmuch as it stops forward/reverse movement.

<Pierce> +q

A set of documents are documents published together. Multipart standards are often published years apart and sold separately by different authors. So they are not published together. Together is a key word

<korn> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-consistent-locations.html

<korn> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-loc.html

<greggvanderheiden> +1

<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to say that "play" function is to start the navigation/process

<Mike> +1

<korn> +1

Need to have a discussion in WCAG on 'set' and 'navigational mechanisms' to describe the concepts.

<Pierce> +q

<Pierce> -q

<Mike> I think that the same argument to augment understanding applies for both

Bypass blocks 2.4.1

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/AUG102012/results#xq2

<Pierce> +q

Question posed: Does your perspective change if instead of this being the same application with two windows open, but instead two different instances of the same application running?

<korn> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-skip.html

Most say this applies in the first instance, but not in the others. It is pretty trivial in the windowed environment to provide the ability to bypass things like menus,etc without tabbing through all of the controls.

Mobile platform is more linear, so we do need to consider that.

These 3 SC we are discussing today are all interrelated so if we can describe software interactions, we can come up a combined solution.

The examples that were provided for us to look at for the survey were the more questionable as to whether these situations apply.

<Pierce> +q

M376 language essentially says it is easy to do this but it is vitally important to do.

<korn> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-skip.html

In applications, any time you open a document there are many things that would need to be stepped over (e.g. menus and things) and this is the intent of the SC. In the Web, every time you open a page, a lot of things are tacked on to the page and there must be a way to jump over them.

When there are controls that are provided on every page or repeated (e.g. a group of checkboxes, etc.) should be skippable.

Multiple ways in software - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/AUG102012/results#xq4

This is about locating, not necessarily navigating to an object.

<alex> so can windows, btw

<Andi> +1 to Peter

Sometimes voice control could be used to navigate.

The intent of the SC is for the user to be able to find things. To access functions: Menus are one way, keyboard shortcuts, and voice commands are all ways to get to those functions.

First multiple ways 2.4.5 question in survey

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/AUG102012/results#xq3

The intent - this SC has to do with people using screen magnifiers and people with cognitive impairments.

This is not about having multiple ways to getting to every part of a Web page, but getting to the Web page.

There are no success criteria for having multiple ways to get to the parts or functions within an interaction context.

If we take a literal approach, software may fall under the exception of this SC.

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/This SC is intended to require navigation mechanisms within a document./navigation mechanisms are something to help you navigate and move about within a document/
Succeeded: s/meeting cancled//
Succeeded: s/A set of documents doesn't necessarily have to be published together, but over a period of time.  As long as they are declared as a part of the set./A set of documents are documents published together.  Multipart standards are often published years apart and sold separately by different authors.  So they are not published together. Together is a key word/
Succeeded: s/GV://
Succeeded: s/Alex://
Found Scribe: MaryJo
Inferring ScribeNick: MaryJo
Default Present: Andi_Snow_Weaver, Shadi, Peter_Korn, Janina_Sajka, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Kiran, Bruce_Bailey, +1.202.447.aaaa, David_MacDonald, MaryJo, Al_Hoffman, Alex_Li, Mike_Pluke, Pierce_Crowell
Present: Andi_Snow_Weaver Shadi Peter_Korn Janina_Sajka Gregg_Vanderheiden Kiran Bruce_Bailey +1.202.447.aaaa David_MacDonald MaryJo Al_Hoffman Alex_Li Mike_Pluke Pierce_Crowell
Found Date: 10 Aug 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/08/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.