See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 July 2012
<Andi> scribe: Loïc_Martínez_Normand
<Andi> ScribeNick: Loic
Andi: We are going through the
action items.
... done most editing tasks except for links to editor's draft
of Understanding
... JB is working on introduction and frontmatter
... extend actions 29 and 30 as they are supposed to be after
first public draft
GV: asking about how to close actions 22-24
Andi: prefers to leave action 24 until surveyed
GV: wants to know the procedure to say that something is finished and ready for survey
Andi: explains how to edit the
action and change the status
... but e-mails to the list that have ACTION-XX in the subject
are not being collected in the related action
Andi asked MC for help on actions and related e-mails. MC will look at it.
<Andi> ACTION: Michael to look at why e-mails are not getting attached to the actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/17-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Look at why e-mails are not getting attached to the actions [on Michael Cooper - due 2012-07-24].
MC: a possibility is to change the "Person" assignment back to Andi and she'll get notified.
Andi: to extend due dates on 29 and 30. To be done after draft publication.
LM: not finished action-36 and he doesn't know when he will be able to finish (travel to a conference and a M376 meeting)
Andi: maybe LM can do a walkthrough today
Partial result: https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/software-ui-vs-software-aspects-of-products
PK: suggests having some reviewers notes in the draft so that people will know things that are still being worked on
JB: cautions about using "editor's notes"
GV: we could make a list of editor's notes to look at them on Friday to make sure that they are adequate
<Andi> ACTION: Peter to draft proposal for editor's notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/17-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - Draft proposal for editor's notes [on Peter Korn - due 2012-07-24].
Andi: proposes adding this list in the introduction.
<Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL172012/results
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL172012/results#xq1
Note that in software user interfaces, heading and labels are used to describe blocks of text and controls respectively. In some cases it may be unclear whether a piece of fixed text is a heading or a label. But whether treated as a label or a heading, the requirement is the same: that if they are present they describe the topic or purpose of the thing(s) they are associated with.
<Mike> +1 to items
+1 to items
<Andi> Note that in software user interfaces, heading and labels are used to describe blocks of text and controls respectively. In some cases it may be unclear whether a piece of fixed text is a heading or a label. But whether treated as a label or a heading, the requirement is the same: that if they are present they describe the topic or purpose of the item(s) they are associated with.
<korn> +1
<Andi> Note that in software user interfaces, headings and labels are used to describe blocks of text and controls respectively. In some cases it may be unclear whether a piece of static text is a heading or a label. But whether treated as a label or a heading, the requirement is the same: that if they are present they describe the topic or purpose of the item(s) they are associated with.
RESOLUTION: 2.4.6 Accepted as amended in the meeting
Andi: Next topic 4.1.1. Not ready yet.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL172012/results#xq3
Andi: has written proposal #4 based on Gregg's proposal and the survey comments
PK: has a question of some situations that may belong or not to 3.3.1
<Andi> ACTION: Gregg to work with Peter to draft example of input that falls outside the allowed range for 3.3.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/17-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-40 - Work with Peter to draft example of input that falls outside the allowed range for 3.3.1 [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-07-24].
RESOLUTION: Accept proposal #4 on 3.3.1 as written
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL172012/results#xq4
Andi: has made proposal #4 with edits coming from the survey
<korn> +1
+1
RESOLUTION: accept proposal #4 for 3.3.3 as written
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL172012/results#xq5
Andi: most are in favour of
"electronic documents"
... prefers "interactive documents" but accepts "electronic
documents" for this draft
GV: difficult to differentiate
between "interactive" and "non-interactive" documents
... suggests adding a note "after consensus" so we don't forget
about "interactive documents"
<Andi> ACTION: Andi to start discussion to revisit use of "electronic document" in 2.2.1 - used to be "interactive document" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/17-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Start discussion to revisit use of "electronic document" in 2.2.1 - used to be "interactive document" [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2012-07-24].
RESOLUTION: change "interactive document" to "electronic document" in 2.2.1
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL172012/results#xq6
JB: goes in order through the comments in the survey
<MichaelC> close action-38
<trackbot> ACTION-38 Look at why e-mails are not getting attached to the actions closed
JB: Alex's proposal of "reinterpret" vs "apply"
AL: clarifies that "reinterpret" is for those cases where some SC may not really apply to non-web ICT
PK: reminds us that we have talked about changing the TF work statement. Suggests that we could ask WCAG WG for permission to use "reinterpret" after this draft
GV: trying to figure out what is the difference. We are in fact writing about "how to apply" WCAG
AL: "Apply" implies something that is straightforward. But our work hasn't been so straightforward. So he suggests "reinterpret" in those cases.
JB: sees no place where
"interpret or reinterpret" could work in current text to
replace "apply".
... Thinks that we look to another way to deal with this
issue
PK: suggests writing that the work has not been straightforward instead of replacing "apply"
GV: agrees that AL has raised a valid point but we need to write that we had to "reinterpret" to explain how to "apply".
AL: wants us to calibrate our language to show that there are things that are problematic and based on what we can deliver now.
AH: Agrees with Alex. Would accept a paragraph explaining this.
<korn> Judy, what about this? "In many cases it was not straightforward to apply the WCAG SC language to software and electronic documents, and the task force had to interpret their intent &/or meaning in those contexts."
<alex_> we only talked about the 1st paragraph
GV: wants us to stay neutral
<Andi> How about "In many cases there are not direct <something> to web pages in software and electronic documents, and the task force had to interpret their intent &/or meaning in those contexts."
<greggvanderheiden> I think it would be better worded at "In some cases the task force had to interpret their intent &/or meaning in those contexts.
RESOLUTION: (Intro, ¶ 1) replace "the application" with "the interpretation and application"
<Andi> ACTION: Alex to work with Judy, Gregg, and Peter on proposing language in the introduction related to issue of "interpretation" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/17-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-42 - Work with Judy, Gregg, and Peter on proposing language in the introduction related to issue of "interpretation" [on Alex Li - due 2012-07-24].
JB: next comment
What about just: "It is intended to help organizations that wish to use WCAG 2.0 across all ICT that they develop, procure, and/or assess for accessibility."
<korn> +1 to offline
<greggvanderheiden> Suggest this is part of the same topic and action
JB: next comment on "all
ICT"
... several agree to remove "all"
PK: after discussion agrees on removing "all" to lower expectations
<Judy> RESOLUTION: (Intro, � 1) remove "all" in "across all ICT"
JB: next on "user interface context" use in the introduction
GV: we should put new terms that we have but not word that we are not using
PK: on "software user interfaces" vs "software aspects of products". That is part of "editor's notes".
<Judy> RESOLVED: (last � ) remove "user interface context"
RESOLUTION: (last ¶ ) remove "user interface context"
JB: next comments from PK in the survey
PK: it is a problem of double interpretation of the sentence.
+1
<Judy> RESOLUTION: (Intro, � 2) Remove "As with WCAG 2.0"
<Judy> RESOLVED: (Intro, � 2) Drop first "specifically"
RESOLUTION: (Intro, ¶ 2) Drop first "specifically"
JB: next comment on whether or
not WCAG should be applied to non-web ICT
... explains that this is based on our work statement
PK: agrees
JB: next comment by BB
... asks for clarification on BB comment
GV: explains that links will be to the future "editor's draft" of understanding
<Andi> RESOLUTION: modify link to Understanding WCAG 2.0 to point to the editors draft and change the wording to include "linking to"
JB: next comment from DM on having a bulleted list. Suggest not to to preserve consistency with the TF work statement.
David: OK
JB: next comment from Andi about
clarifying that WCAG may not be enough.
... discussing about how to deal with these comments in
preparation for draft publication
Andi: proposes a plan for having several surveys to process content in the draft to speed the process
GV: asks for clarification
Andi: suggest a first survey on SC that can be sent, then a second survey with the introduction
<Andi> tracbot, end meeting
<Andi> trackbot, end meeting
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