HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

31 May 2012

See also: IRC log


Rich, JF, richardschwerdtfe


<trackbot> Date: 31 May 2012

<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference

<scribe> scribe: Rich

<scribe> meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Meeting

<scribe> chair: janina

<MichaelC> scribeNick: richardschwerdtfe

<scribe> meeting: make log member

Issue 204

janina: has anyone been able to look at Steve's test page
... there are two competing change proposals
... The Ted/Jonas proposal regarding RFC 2119
... I don't want to embarrass anyone

Judy: I don't think it is an embarrassment issue it is an information sharing issue.
... I think it is a simple matter of information sharing or reminding. Yes, we had proposed that but that is not possible in this situation as we believed as well.
... We had asked him to use the same consistency

JF: In the current change proposal that emerged from the F2F that authors should not be using hidden elements that used RFC 2119 language.
... Although we have RFC 2119 in the change proposal it puts the onus on the author in terms of RFC SHOULD NOT but there is MAY language pertaining to the browser
... Jonas is half right and we are half right
... We want to make sure this referencing hidden content is right. There is a strong feeling that they don't want to link to external content

janina: the issue was making RFC 2119 comments regarding ARIA markup and how it should be used
... are we being inconsistent there John?

JF: I don't think so. I could live with MAY
... Insisting that authors should or must is problematic.
... Cynthia's response was that MUST was not acceptable
... Cynthia would discuss SHOULD

janina: they are looking on SHOULD or MUST language
... we are not supportive of that

JF: I am not optimistic of a single proposal

Judy: my understanding of the discussion is that since the effort to use that language in one place has been strongly objected by the chairs and that Sam has a follow up item on that

paulc: That follow up item is dependent on something Janina had to do

Judy: Janina did that last night

paulc: I must have missed it

Janina: to post a link

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0165.html

<scribe> meeting: makelog member

<scribe> meeting: makelog public

paulc: neither Sam nor I are on the email

<JF> scribe: JF

JS: Asking Rich about Issue 205

PC: Question about whether Spec should give guidance on <canvas> and if authors should use text-editing


<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0164.html

RS: recall that Frank Oliver suggested not to do this

CP: yes, he authored the zero-change proposal

RS: slightly confused, as Frank also worked on the initial proposal months ago

<paulc> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-205-objection-poll/

Straw Poll closes end of business Next Thursday

RS: what is confusing is that there is a CP that we will be voting on -introducing real world use-cases now

now we have a second CP

JS: we shouldn't dwell on history, the question is what to do today

RS: I've been asked to resubmit the CP with real world use-cases

PC: believe you are confusing this with a different issue

Chairs reviewed this before going forward - we may be wrong but believe that there are 2 CPs

if there is some confusion then this is unfortunate

RS: why do we have two issues that are essentially the same issue?

this does not make sense

<paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0142.html

PC: this is a recent note, taken from the status page. If you follow from there you will see what happened

RS: so Frank is suggesting that there are 2 points, text (??) and text editing
... so it has been broken out into 2 things. Franks justification is that this is too hard.

PC: this is what the survey is for

RS: Thought that author guidance was not to be inserted into the Spec

are we adding author guidance or not?

PC: waiting to wee what WG members have to say on that topic (add or not add author guidance)

RS: we have a CP that addresses the text-editing problem - group will vote to include or not include

JS: we need to wrap this up for no

if I understand correctly is that we have the tools, but some are still asking that we say 'don't do it"

RS: based on what

JB: sounds like Rich has found a process problem between 2 CPs - sounds like a bunch of tangled history

suggestion is to rather then dwell on that but focus on the point that Rich is drawing

if there is a linkage, which I think i am hearing, we should perhaps work on this off-line

RS: don't think we should be having a straw poll before the first issue is resolved

JF: just want to point out that there is author guidance included in our CP for Issue 204

JS: there are some places where we want to remove author guidance, and others where we want to see it included

RS: Chairs should have resolved the technical issue first; makes no sense to include an API, then turn around and say don't use it

JB: suggest we take this off-line for now

we have a week to review this and work forward

JS: can't deal with this today - point is the heads up that it is on our plate

moving on

Issue 199

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we have a redrafted proposal

<scribe> scribe: richardschwerdtfe

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIA_Processing

michael: I copied his style. Taking the ARIA value type.
... I said they are valid on all elements but that there are restrictions and implied host language elements where the roles apply
... we don't want to copy and duplicate errors. It does require us to follow a couple of links to see the full implementation model.

janina: I believe we have all issues from the face to face addressed in this draft.

Judy: What if we don't get a response to the draft?
... We have a number of things waiting on Ted that have received no response

<JF> (Ted did make some commitments at the F2F on these topics)

<paulc> I am having auditory problems. And just dropped off phone call.

Michael: we should have time to review it.
... I am hoping he will have little objections


<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0158.html

janina: this is video transcript

<Judy> rssagent, make log world

janina: I do see that Ted has offered a change proposal based on his IDREF

JF: I have not fully read Ted's proposal. What I can see here is that from an accessibility perspective Ted's proposal would satisfy
... The transcript attribute would be acceptable
... It boils down to Ted and Silivia's proposal would be whether Silvia's proposal is to create a transcript element "landmark" is acceptable

<paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194

Paul: I don't think we have anything on record that actually says what you might be about to infer

<paulc> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/Issue194

Paul: if you look there you will notice that the confusing situation with the new attribute proposal.
... That is the new attribute
... I am trying to determine what this group's position on the previous proposal

<paulc> New proposal for element: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ISSUE-194/TranscriptElement

JF: there is a change proposal that Silvia worked on with Charles, myself, and janina
... if you go to the bottom there are 5 other change proposals in play
... I will be withdrawing @transcript. The earlier proposal created by Silva and Ted should be removed but I am not sure

Paul: I may have to peel these off one at a time
... I need to know if Silvia is withdrawing her proposal for issue 194.
... I am asking about the no change and am targeting at Ted.
... Ted - now that you have a new proposal are you removing the no change proposal. Which are the survivors?

janina: taking John's point and mine
... our accessibility requirements are addressed either way but there may be one which we prefer. Can we move toward a resolution on that?

JF: on first blush I like the one we worked on earlier with the <transcript> element
... Silvlia still wants to address Ben's concerns
... if we can address his concerns we will have a stronger proposal

Rich: did the transcript track proposal die?

JF: yes

janina: it had to do with rendering issues

JF: we should wait on SIlvia
... we are not in a rush to do anything

Paul: John You could work on your argument for the transcript element now that you have seen Ted's proposal

JF: both proposals use IDREF and Ted said you could use a div for the transcript but Silvia recommends a transcript element
... I will try to connect with Silvia later on today

<paulc> Leaving now for the WG meeting., I am chairing.

janina: Hopefully we will have a stable and improved version of 194 by next week
... we can defer other activity

Issue-31C Status

Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Text; ARIA Mappings

Other Business

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found Date: 31 May 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/05/31-html-a11y-minutes.html
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