W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

02 May 2012

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
jernoble, chrislowis, olivier, Alistair, Joe, mdjp, jussi, CRogers
Regrets
Chair
Alistair
Scribe
Olivier

Contents


<scribe> Scribe: Olivier

new members

Al: Microsoft has joined the working group, new member Tony Ross

ISSUE-12: Loop start/stop points

ISSUE-12?

<trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Loop start/stop points -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/12

Joe: came up at the f2f

… some confusion about what looping meant

Chris: agreed we should meet this requirement

CRogers: not implemented yet, but agree

… could be interesting semantics

… default, for most people, would be between 0 and size of the buffer

… but if not default value, if you have an internal loop point

Joe: the need is different from just a extract, which you can get with notegrainon

CRogers: expected behaviour if using an internal loop?

Joe: would expect to play until end of loop then go to end of buffer

… confusion with notegrainon?

CRogers: notegrainon not used in looping

Joe: depends what you want to do. If you want to play an enveloped sound, notegrainon lets you play a specific length of sample

CRogers: depends if you want to refer to a subsection of a sample

… in DLS and soundfounts (SP?) there is no notion of notegrainon

Joe: you are suggesting that noteoff be the mechanism to end a loop?

CRogers: yes, but that means special-casing a loop if you have an internal loop

… the name noteOn and noteOff are misleading

… would have been prefereable to use stop and start

… but the noteOn and noteOff are out in the wild now, question of how we'd keep supporting them (and what to say in the spec?)

… so we could have several methods - loopExit and (?)

CRogers: almost all loop end points I've seen tend to be at the end of sample data

Alistair: are we looking to merge this into one thing, and remove the grain?

CRogers: my gut reaction at the moment would be that notegrainon should not be used for looping

… we'd add 2 new attributes loopstart and loopend

… which would be set by default to 0 and end of buffer

Joe: does that affect statefulness of node?

CRogers: could happen

Joe: this would introduce an ordering requirement

… where you could not set loopstart/loopend before you assign a buffer

CRogers: need to think about it, and we can discuss it on the list
... on a related subject, should we start deprecating noteon/noteoff?

Joe: I favour a name change.

CRogers: favour start and stop?
... spec should mention that noteon / noteoff should still be supported

<Alistair> Olivier: It was not very clear from the usecases. if there is a suggetion on how to work on the use cases w. regards to this ite,

<Alistair> /s/ite,/item

Olivier: a little uncomfortable with having something deprecated from v1

<Alistair> Oliver: I have a concern about renaming from NoteOn etc from Start. Saying it's deprecated from version 1 might be less than desirable.

Olivier: would either keep it normatively or have it informatively

ISSUE-6: Audio Param Constructor

Olivier: a compromise would be to consolidate, recommend the use of start/stop and say that noteon/off may be deprecated in the future

<Alistair> https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/6

Al: we had a tentative resolution on ISSUE-6

http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Main_Page#Meeting_Minutes_and_Resolutions

<Alistair> Tentative Resolution: keep AudioParam constructor for a future version of the spec

Al: any change since we last looked at it?

CRogers: agree we should consider it for next version of the spec

Olivier: suggest to have a section of the spec mentioning the thing(s) we are keeping out of v1

… also agree we should close the issue, as there has been no objection for a month since tentative resolution

ISSUE-9: Channel handling

<scribe> ACTION: Olivier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Olivier

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)

<scribe> ACTION: livier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - livier

<scribe> ACTION: olivier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - olivier

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)

<scribe> ACTION: ot to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2012-05-09].

ISSUE-5: Pausing a sub-graph

ISSUE-9: Channel handling

ISSUE-9?

<trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- Multi-Channel support in Use Cases & Reqs. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/9

<Alistair> https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/9

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0077.html

Olivier: I think the 4 requirements cover all we need?

Chris: at the very list we want to be able to output to multiple channels

whether they are speakers or discrete channels

… so we need to have a way to query the hardware

… and set the audiocontext to that number of channels

… regardless of speakers and layout

Al: what is the current status of spec/implementation?

CRogers: there are notions of upmixing

… the destination node has a number of channels, currently hardcoded to 2

… we need to have a way to find out that a device supports more than stereo

Al: does this bring us to device enumeration, etc?

<Zakim> olivier, you wanted to ask if this is a requirement from us to dap?

CRogers: at least we should know, given the default device, what is the number of channels

<chris> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/specification.html#AudioDestinationNode

Olivier: this should be on a group's roadmap - if not ours, maybe DAP?

CRogers: could have a read only attribute in the AudioDestinationNode reporting the max number of channels supported

Olivier: sounds reasonable

Crogers: would be a simple approach, I think it would work

Al: should we contact the DAP group, offer support?

Olivier: would be a good idea to ask DAP anyway, see what they think about us having it in web audio API

CRogers: there is the potential issue of fingerprinting

Olivier: does not seem to be in the same order of privacy risk as a case where you list all devices and their APIs

ISSUE-5: Pausing a sub-graph

ISSUE-5?

<trackbot> ISSUE-5 -- Pausing a subgraph -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/5

Al: ROC not here today, best to pass over this?

(no objection)

Al: will add it to next week's agenda

<scribe> Agenda: spec roadmap

Joe: wondering what is the status

Al: there seems to be increasing buy-in for web audio spec

Olivier: I get that sense too. I would like the group to resolve on this in the month to come

… if the group is to decide to go ahead with just the web audio API, which seems to be the trend, I'd like it to be a recorded decision by the group before we go to LC

… but we haven't had ROC on the call lately, so would want to hear his thought too

ADJOURNED

<chrislowis> Night all!

Spec Roadmap

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: livier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Olivier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: olivier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: ot to draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html#action04]
 
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Default Present: jernoble, chrislowis, olivier, Alistair, Joe, mdjp, jussi, CRogers
Present: jernoble chrislowis olivier Alistair Joe mdjp jussi CRogers

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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0081.html
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Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html
People with action items: livier olivier ot

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        <scribe> Al: Microsoft has joined the working group, new member Tony Ross



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        <scribe> Al: Microsoft has joined the working group, new member Tony Ross



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