See also: IRC log
<Joshue108> rragent, make logs world
<Joshue108> Week of Oct 29)
<cfit> Meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
<scribe> scribe: marcjohlic
<cfit> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_section_elements
<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_section_elements
JC: Reviewing feedback - will
update and try to present again next week
... Should we divide technique up into many techniques - or is
it better to have it all in one large technique
DM: Feels one technique is
sufficient.. looking it over
... Where did article example come from
JC: Just made it up - pulling from existing spec
JG: Heading structure using H1?
JC: Left out because wasn't sure if it should be an advisory technique
JG: Looking at Example 4 - wouldn't you want every post to use an H2 to indicate that it's under the "Your first high end guitar" because it's an H1?
JC: Good point
DM: How do people feel about having headers and footers included - tend to think about header being at the top and footer at bottom - and didn't think of including each in every article.. I don't know that I'd put those in each article..
JG: Semantic markup best when sparse - tends to lose meaning when it's everywhere
JC: Agree and will remove headers and footers
JG: What do user agents do w/ headers and footers? Do they make them landmakrs
DM: It's pretty spotty right now
- depends on the UA and AT you're using
... "Landmarks" are very well supported right now, but HTML5
section elements are not
JC: Some of these examples are based on what you could potentially do in the future
DM: maybe 6 mos - year
JC: Will most of this end up as
advisory techniques?
... Some comments were on adding test techniques - but not
quite sure how to add those for these
DM: Recommend checking w/ Steve Faulkner as he's written some good HTML5 test techniques
BB: Should clarify header and footer around tables
JG: Concern that there may be potentially too many navigation points - ends up looking like every bit of info is important.. might be overkill to have header and footer on every article (Example 4)
JC: I'm going to change that -
it's legal, but not necessarily best practice
... There is a lot of confusion of how to mark up / nest
stuff
JG: According to SF blog it looks like article and header are just treated as divs now, but may be more relevant in the future
<jongund> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
JG: Link to draft document of api
mappings
... article is an interesting role in HTML5 - not a landmark
role but more like a special list as far as I can tell
... May have to careful with article
... Most folks think of article as a landmark, but it looks
like it's not defined as a landmark
MC: article is a type of region in a document - but should be clarified as a non-interactive region
JG: What are they envisioning a
screen reader's interaction would be?
... articles are supposed to be used in a sequence?
DM: supposed to be used more for blogs, newspaper / news sites
MC: I would think that an article
would have a heading and you would navigate via the
headings
... Even though article isn't technically a landmark doesn't
mean that ATs couldn't come up with ways to interact / navigate
(similar to tables today)
<cfit> Interesting article on JAWS, IE Heading http://www.accessibleculture.org/articles/2011/10/jaws-ie-and-headings-in-html5/
<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_identify_regions_of_a_page
JC: Need to determine if we'll keep all of these together (section, article, aside) or split some of them out
MC: My personal bias is to make techniques as granular as possible and then making use of the Related Techniques section
JC: Would be fair to have
examples that contain the multiple elements / attributes
... MC makes the case on breaking this up - so if there is no
disagreement I will go ahead and do that.
<cfit> ACTION: Josh to rework the section technique and divide it into smaller granular techs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/16-html-techs-tf-minutes.html#action01]
AS: As far as breaking up the techniques, there is a precedent in 1.3.2 for lists where it is all in one technique - so something to consider
JC: I may be able to flesh it out some more if I did break it up
AS: If the only reason we are breaking up is due to length then I think we should reconsider
<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_section_elements
LG: Have you thought about what the test procedure would look like?
JC: Thought about it, but have not put anything down yet.. may ping LG for some ideas
LG: I don't think we've ever broken up just because it was long, but if you try to put too many things then it might be harder to write test procedures to cover everything.
AS: 1.3.2 gives good example even for test technique if kept together
DM: Splitting up may make it too granular
LG: When grouping you have to be careful that you don't somehow end up requiring all of them accidentally
JC: That's similar to the point
that JG brought up about including header and footer
... Would it be possible to have 2 or 3 sets of test techniques
if they were kept altogether?
LG: Could utilized and / or - but would have to be clear of what is required
JC: I'll break it up and we can see how it looks and then we can compare to what is already written and go from there
AS: H48 would be a good example to look at for a test procedure
<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_identify_regions_of_a_page
JC: Find that aria-label is really useful and wonder if this would be a good place to expand on it (just see it used in Ex 4)
DM: I would put that in the
aria-label technique that i'm working on next
... Just using it in Ex 4 now to cover case of generic region
landmark
... Would add link to aria-label in the Related Resources
section
JG: Comment on Ex 5 - should H2 be inside of the div? Is that better practice:?
DM: Good point - I'll change that
<Loretta> Can someone paste in the URL for me?
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_identify_regions_of_a_page
LG: Would like to see an advisory technique written up regarding all content being included within the landmark.
JG: I'd be happy to try to write an advisory technique for that
DM: Do we want to go forward with this techinque?
JC: Happy with it - ready to go fwd - what is the next step?
LG: Would go to the Working
Group, but we would probably want to wait and send a few of
these over in a batch
... Add something to the status stating that this one is ready
to go to the WG
JC: Any other comments on David's Landmark technique?
no more comments
LG: Don't expect will be able to make it over
MC: Does expect to be there
DM: Hoping to get there
MC: PF group will be there, folks
already in HTML a11y that are in Europe may be there
... We can make a request for a room - but should only request
for the days that we'll actually use it
JC: Let's ask for Thurs for now
MC: Loretta, can you fill out the survey for that? I've already answered on behalf of one group so can't answer this one
LG: Yes - will do survey for WCAG for Thurs
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: marcjohlic Inferring ScribeNick: marcjohlic Default Present: Joshue, Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, +1.202.272.aaaa, Bruce_Bailey, Marc_Johlic, Adam_Solomon, Jon_Gunderson, +1.650.253.aabb Present: Joshue Cooper Loretta_Guarino_Reid David_MacDonald +1.202.272.aaaa Bruce_Bailey Marc_Johlic Adam_Solomon Jon_Gunderson +1.650.253.aabb Got date from IRC log name: 16 Apr 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/16-html-techs-tf-minutes.html People with action items: josh WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]