See also: IRC log
<sandro> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Date: 04 April 2012
<gavinc> Sebastopol! Forever!
<scribe> scribenick: MacTed
PROPOSED: accept minutes of 2012-03-28, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-03-28
RESOLUTION: accept minutes of 2012-03-28, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-03-28
[[ colon-related actions taken, followup expected on list ]]
Gavin: summarizing main issues... consistency and import of whether N-Triples is defined as a subset of Turtle, or Turtle is defined an extension of N-Triples
Eric: initially tried to write
with more distinction between Turtle and N-Triples, but it
became easier to write with a blur
... priority is to make spec explicit for parsers and
implementers, but also try to be nice and make something
readable for authors
[[ discussion of which really takes priority ... ]]
[[ discussion about title and thus doc focus -- perhaps Turtle with N-Triples as appendix/chapter? ]]
<Guus> rnaudack
Arnaud: agrees we should focus on Turtle, and introduce N-Triples at the end
<sandro> +1 call it "simple statement", etc, and then later say n-triples == simple statements, simple terms.
<zwu2> simple is good
<zwu2> :)
Guus: call for any other points from review needing discussion
<gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes
gavinc: "5.3 Escape Sequences" needs touch
[[ quick discussion resolved ]]
gavinc: no qname defined for Turtle... do we need one?
<gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-identifiers
<PatH> Im still on IRC, will call back on phone.
gavinc: why are we defining an XML namespace for Turtle?
<ivan> http://www.w3.org/ns/formats/data/Turtle
<gavinc> http://www.w3.org/ns/formats/Turtle
ivan: there is a URI to identify the format, http://www.w3.org/ns/formats/Turtle ... is that what we're talking about?
gavinc: submission defined format URI, as well as XML namespace and localname. still wondering why the latter are there.
<ericP> <someDoc xmlns:ttl="http://www.w3.org/ns/formats/"><ttl:Turtle>...</ttl:Turtle></someDoc>
<ericP> ?
<gavinc> The XML (Namespace name, Local name) pair that identifies the Turtle language is:
<gavinc> Namespace: http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle#
<gavinc> Local name: turtle
<gavinc> The suggested namespace prefix is ttl (informative) which would make this ttl:turtle as an XML QName.
gavinc: any objections to removing XML namespace and localname?
PROPOSAL: remove XML namespace and localname definitions (from 2004 draft) from current doc
<gavinc> +!
<Guus> +1
<ericP> PROPOSED: remove XML namespace and localname from Turtle
<gavinc> +1
RESOLUTION: remove XML namespace and localname definitions (from 2004 draft) from current doc
[[ do we need another draft round? or will LC be next output? ]]
[[ rough consensus that this round of editorial ToDo will result in LC-ready draft, but timing probably pushes back ]]
<pchampin> I'm on IRC, but I can't manage to dial in :-(
<pchampin> I confirm: *I* volunteeded to review the turtle document, not Antoine...
<ericP> pchampin, andy's review has prompted a major re-write. to save frustration, you may as well wait for word that the doc is stable
<pchampin> no problem
davidwood: JSON-LD spec has made much progress, no other WG has charter to deal with it
<gavinc> +0.5 for JSON-LD in this working group
Guus: we may revisit it soon
Guus: current proposal on wiki is extra nice because it has lots of tests
<Guus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Apr/0027.html
<PatH> sandro, why do you want to impose this functionality?
sandro: most everyone agrees that
Graph Names are unique within a data set. less agreement that
Graph Names are unique in the world.
... if you're going to say something hasGraph it can *only*
have *one* graph, regardless of context
PatH: could weaken that (or break it) and then be able to handle more cases
<ericP> DB1 matches SELECT*{GRAPH <http://a.example/> {:Fido a :Dog}} while DB2 matches SELECT*{GRAPH <http://a.example/> {:Fido a :Dog, :Mammal}}
sandro: strawman proposal is that when you say graphName holds { triples }, that's a closed and complete list
[[ discussion of strawmen ]]
<Guus> PatH: could be two snapshots of the same container
<PatH> +1 to ivan
ivan: restriction proposed seems
entirely unenforceable
... people *will* use same name for GRAPHs with different
tripleset content
<PatH> if we make the rules stiff, people will snap them.
ivan: (they *do* today)
<PatH> I will say that if Ivan doesnt.
sandro: they're saying "GRAPH contains" rather than "GRAPH is" "this data"
<ericP> what if we have two semantics?: high-semantics: make sure all names refer to the same thing, low: do what you want
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to characterize that restriction
sandro: prefers simply high-semantics
MacTed: Gbox, Gsnap distinction seems lacking. this discussion seems to blur the two.
<PatH> good point.
PatH: instincts are to support sandro. problem is that there are lots of "lower" semantics which are internally consistent, but don't fit into strict CoolURI picture.
<Zakim> Guus, you wanted to ask about the current state of container
<sandro> pat: q?
Guus: question... URI of a graph container. if I get two snapshots with two different sets of triples, they should have different labels?
sandro: change over time is a different question...
<PatH> we could always start a new WG...
<sandro> sandro: If we're going to talk about change-over-time, let's settle it for foaf:age *before* we try to settle it for dereference.
MacTed: time is just another axis of context. it's all contextual.
<PatH> do i detect a certtain burnout?
<sandro> yes.
<sandro> so done.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Turtle being distinct from N-Triples/Turtle and N-Triples/ Found ScribeNick: MacTed Inferring Scribes: MacTed WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: AZ AlexHall Arnaud Arnaud1 David_Wood Eric Gavin Guus Ivan LeeF MacTed Namespace NickH OpenLink_Software P0 P10 PROPOSAL PROPOSED PatH SteveH aaaa aabb aacc aadd aaee aaff cgreer danbri davidwood ericP gavinc manu manu1 mdmdm_ mischat pat pchampin pchampin_ sandro scribenick trackbot yvesr zwu2 You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 04 Apr 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]