See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 22 March 2012
<glenn> sorry, was trying to tell zakim to mute me
<krit> scribeNick: krit
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings/telcon-time-vote-april-2012
heycam: most might have less
problems with proposal 2
... suggest to go with 2 than
Tav: that's fine with me
resolution: telcoms will be at 21: UTC once all people are in summer time
it was Tav :(
<Tav> I'll call in again
cyril: next week just europe changes
resolution: keep the current time till the end of the month
s/topic: SVG 2.0 require,emts/topic: SVG 2.0 requiremets/
cyril: I try to find the link
Detect if a mouse event is on the fill or stroke
heycam: nice to have
... allows us not to duplicate the elements
cyril: can we extend mouse
events?
... be able to regster events only on the stroke, or
shape
... onstrokeclick
heycam: you have to duplicate a
lot
... thinking more of the dupl. of existing events
cyril: might be handy
heycam: not sure if i like the idea for the new events
ed: makes it harder to deal with
pointer events
... haveing some way of setting where the events came from
doesn't sound expesnsive
heycam: we could send a mail to the DOM mailing list what people think there
Tav: isn't this equivalent to the use case of clicking on a border to resize a window when you have a border
heycam: might be
cyril: clikcing on the stroke
would give you a feedback what you clicked as well as a point
where
... stroke or fill
heycam: what about isPointOnTheStroke, or isPointOnThe Fill
shepazu: feels strange to
me
... would not only be fill and strokebut marker as well
... what is the equivalent in CSS? borderoutline or
background?
heycam: would be on the DOM SVG
elements
... more like events
<heycam> onmouseover="if (this.isPointOnStroke(evt.clientX, evt.clientY)) { … }"
shepazu: Iam a user I click on
the stroke of the circle
... what does the code do?
... that is differen
heycam: yes, the example is kind of stupid
shepazu: ok, but it looks more
interessting to me
... we have get intersection BLA
<ed> onmouseover="if (this.isPointOnStroke(evt))..." even?
shepazu: like getIntersectionList
<heycam> onmouseover="var markerIndex = this.getIndexOfMarkerThisPointIsOver(evt.clientX, evt.clientY); …"
shepazu: it could return which
parts of this element does this point hit
... it doesn't have to use an event
... for collistion detection might be useful
<ed> isPointInPath would be useful too, in this case...
shepazu: it might not useful it self, so it might be a rectanlge by size one
heycam: we might except it then as a requirement
resolution: SVG 2 will make it easier to detect if an mouse event is on the stroke or fill of an element
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#SMIL_data_feedback
SMIL data feedback
cyril: we can look at it
heycam: looks like
simulation
... seems to be complexed data based input to SMIL
animations
... might be useful to
... give me an action
<scribe> ACTION: heycam will look at data feedback for SMIL and stays in contact with David [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3251 - Will look at data feedback for SMIL and stays in contact with David [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-03-29].
resolution: SVG 2 will not have SMIL data feedback until we accept requirement after clarification
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#SMIL_time_containers
cyril: we kind of reolved time container already
heycam: We are waiting for Brian
about feedback
... he might be more aware of the needs
... it is likely that he suggest that we have time container in
SVG 2
cyril: if we don't resolve it now, we should discuss the next phase
krit: we should at least have an action to look at it
heycam: I talk to Brian till the next telcon
cyril: we should move on to the next agenda topic
<cyril> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0079.html
<heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0079.html
cyril: can you summarize?
... we have so many requirements, to many for get the spec in
time?
... we should pick up topics and need to make choices
heycam: I agree
... discussed that in sydney as well
cyril: how many proposals do we
expect to proceed
... even 20 is a lot
... working on it to the end of july is really aggressively
heycam: how many proposals do we have?
cyril: it's in my email
... 126?
heycam: pick the things you are
interessted in and push it forward
... we should start a wiki page where people put ther names on
the feature
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#z-index
cyril: put your name under the feature on the list above
heycam: we should have realistic
time frames
... idea: pick a feature, put your name on it , write the spec,
the test
... we can speak about it to the next week telcon
... the timeframes...
cyril: next or in two weeks
... need a list of requ. that need a written down proposal
krit: what about fixed time
frames for discussions on telcoms?
... if a topic takes more time it gets cut off till the next
telcom
... like the CSS WG
heycam: Proposals should come on
the list first
... and discussed there
... if needed the discussion is done on the tel com
cyril: who owns a feature will
decide if it needs discussed on telcom
... two people want a feature, how do we decide who gets
it?
heycam: we should assign on it
before
... working on it
... someone wants to work on it?
cyril: sometime you have two different ideas
heycam: sure
... we should be clear who is driving which feature
... get the topics till next week?
ed: fine
heycam: I send a mail to the list
<scribe> ACTION: heycam will send a mail to the list to put their names to the SVG 2 requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3252 - Will send a mail to the list to put their names to the SVG 2 requirements [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-03-29].
<scribe> ACTION: Nikos produce a list of requirements that need proposals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3253 - Produce a list of requirements that need proposals [on Nikos Andronikos - due 2012-03-29].
<heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
krit: should the new presentation attributes allow unitless values and scientific notation?
heycam: I think they should
krit: for example transform-origin="100,100"
… I agree
… I wrote some test cases without thinking about, and I wrote unitless values
… I think it's more native for SVG people to use unitless values
… as well as scientific notation
… using user units makes more sense in an SVG context than using px
… so I propose we support both in all presentation attributes
heycam: what is the set of new presentation attributes?
<krit> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
<krit> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#property-index
cyril: so perspective, perspective-origin and transform-origin
heycam: I think authors will expect to be able to use user units
<ed> also see http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html
<ed> issue#2
ed: issue 2 in that document covers exactly this issue
krit: do we have to specify the syntax in the css spec?
heycam: do you want a link to SVG length/number syntax?
krit: at the moment they are not specified
<krit> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#transform-attribute-specificity
<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html#issue2
heycam: I think it would be
better to link or define the syntax of the presentation
... easiest would be to link to <length> and
<number> from 1.1's types chapter
<krit> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/types.html
heycam: the issue 2 in the animation proposal aligns with what we want then, user units allowed in presentation attributes
ed: I assume we would support all of the new units in the presentation attributes
heycam: what about calc()?
... just want to be sure the grammar/parser will work with say
scientific notation inside calc expressions
ed: I think we should try to stay as close to the css syntax where we can
heycam: do you want to allow unitless values in the middle of calc?
ed: good question
shepazu: I would want to
krit: for webkit it wouldn't be a problem
RESOLUTION: SVG WG is happy with allowing unitless numbers and scientific notation in the css transforms presentation attributes
ISSUE: Should we allow unitless numbers and scientific notation inside calc expressions in presentation attributes?
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2442 - Should we allow unitless numbers and scientific notation inside calc expressions in presentation attributes? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2442/edit .
<scribe> ACTION: Dirk to mail public-fx about unitless numbers in presentation attributes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3254 - Mail public-fx about unitless numbers in presentation attributes [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-03-29].
ed: some questions from our layout team about sizing of svg in html
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0158.html
… would like to know mozilla's opinion on this given their open bugs
… this needs clarifying in a spec somewhere
ISSUE-2241?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2241 -- 1. Introduction - More explanations about the used coordinate system -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2241
ed: I think this is specific to where you have percetanges specified, or not specified at all, and whether or not they define an intrinsic size/ratio
… I think it comes down to how you want to resolve the lengths, and tweaking the spec wording to that effect
… reading the mozilla bug, it seems that mozilla went and did something else
… so it would be nice to have something defined in the spec
… we have at least three different behaviours among the 4 browsers
heycam: do you have an opinion on which way to resolve it?
ed: I would prefer if it doesn't break a lot of content, of course
… in the first case what opera/firefox do at the moment would be good
… for the second example, I'm not sure either way
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2441 has more details than the mail
https://bug668163.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=545713
krit: there is a webkit bug about that, so it might be changed a bit
<glenn> dropping now, have another appt
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to ask jwatt about the percentage sizing issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3255 - Ask jwatt about the percentage sizing issue [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-03-29].
ACTION-3255: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2441
<trackbot> ACTION-3255 Ask jwatt about the percentage sizing issue notes added
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