<trackbot> Date: 22 March 2012

<glenn> sorry, was trying to tell zakim to mute me

<krit> scribeNick: krit

telcomtime

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings/telcon-time-vote-april-2012

heycam: most might have less problems with proposal 2
... suggest to go with 2 than

Tav: that's fine with me

resolution: telcoms will be at 21: UTC once all people are in summer time

it was Tav :(

<Tav> I'll call in again

cyril: next week just europe changes

resolution: keep the current time till the end of the month

SVG 2.0 requireemts

s/topic: SVG 2.0 require,emts/topic: SVG 2.0 requiremets/

cyril: I try to find the link

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Detect_if_a_mouse_event_is_on_the_fill_or_stroke

Detect if a mouse event is on the fill or stroke

heycam: nice to have
... allows us not to duplicate the elements

cyril: can we extend mouse events?
... be able to regster events only on the stroke, or shape
... onstrokeclick

heycam: you have to duplicate a lot
... thinking more of the dupl. of existing events

cyril: might be handy

heycam: not sure if i like the idea for the new events

ed: makes it harder to deal with pointer events
... haveing some way of setting where the events came from doesn't sound expesnsive

heycam: we could send a mail to the DOM mailing list what people think there

Tav: isn't this equivalent to the use case of clicking on a border to resize a window when you have a border

heycam: might be

cyril: clikcing on the stroke would give you a feedback what you clicked as well as a point where
... stroke or fill

heycam: what about isPointOnTheStroke, or isPointOnThe Fill

shepazu: feels strange to me
... would not only be fill and strokebut marker as well
... what is the equivalent in CSS? borderoutline or background?

heycam: would be on the DOM SVG elements
... more like events

<heycam> onmouseover="if (this.isPointOnStroke(evt.clientX, evt.clientY)) { … }"

shepazu: Iam a user I click on the stroke of the circle
... what does the code do?
... that is differen

heycam: yes, the example is kind of stupid

shepazu: ok, but it looks more interessting to me
... we have get intersection BLA

<ed> onmouseover="if (this.isPointOnStroke(evt))..." even?

shepazu: like getIntersectionList

<heycam> onmouseover="var markerIndex = this.getIndexOfMarkerThisPointIsOver(evt.clientX, evt.clientY); …"

shepazu: it could return which parts of this element does this point hit
... it doesn't have to use an event
... for collistion detection might be useful

<ed> isPointInPath would be useful too, in this case...

shepazu: it might not useful it self, so it might be a rectanlge by size one

heycam: we might except it then as a requirement

resolution: SVG 2 will make it easier to detect if an mouse event is on the stroke or fill of an element

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#SMIL_data_feedback

SMIL data feedback

cyril: we can look at it

heycam: looks like simulation
... seems to be complexed data based input to SMIL animations
... might be useful to
... give me an action

<scribe> ACTION: heycam will look at data feedback for SMIL and stays in contact with David [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3251 - Will look at data feedback for SMIL and stays in contact with David [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-03-29].

resolution: SVG 2 will not have SMIL data feedback until we accept requirement after clarification

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#SMIL_time_containers

cyril: we kind of reolved time container already

heycam: We are waiting for Brian about feedback
... he might be more aware of the needs
... it is likely that he suggest that we have time container in SVG 2

cyril: if we don't resolve it now, we should discuss the next phase

krit: we should at least have an action to look at it

heycam: I talk to Brian till the next telcon

cyril: we should move on to the next agenda topic

SVG 2 next phase

<cyril> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0079.html

<heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0079.html

cyril: can you summarize?
... we have so many requirements, to many for get the spec in time?
... we should pick up topics and need to make choices

heycam: I agree
... discussed that in sydney as well

cyril: how many proposals do we expect to proceed
... even 20 is a lot
... working on it to the end of july is really aggressively

heycam: how many proposals do we have?

cyril: it's in my email
... 126?

heycam: pick the things you are interessted in and push it forward
... we should start a wiki page where people put ther names on the feature

<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#z-index

cyril: put your name under the feature on the list above

heycam: we should have realistic time frames
... idea: pick a feature, put your name on it , write the spec, the test
... we can speak about it to the next week telcon
... the timeframes...

cyril: next or in two weeks
... need a list of requ. that need a written down proposal

krit: what about fixed time frames for discussions on telcoms?
... if a topic takes more time it gets cut off till the next telcom
... like the CSS WG

heycam: Proposals should come on the list first
... and discussed there
... if needed the discussion is done on the tel com

cyril: who owns a feature will decide if it needs discussed on telcom
... two people want a feature, how do we decide who gets it?

heycam: we should assign on it before
... working on it
... someone wants to work on it?

cyril: sometime you have two different ideas

heycam: sure
... we should be clear who is driving which feature
... get the topics till next week?

ed: fine

heycam: I send a mail to the list

<scribe> ACTION: heycam will send a mail to the list to put their names to the SVG 2 requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3252 - Will send a mail to the list to put their names to the SVG 2 requirements [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-03-29].

<scribe> ACTION: Nikos produce a list of requirements that need proposals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3253 - Produce a list of requirements that need proposals [on Nikos Andronikos - due 2012-03-29].

<heycam> ScribeNick: heycam

css transforms presentation attributes

krit: should the new presentation attributes allow unitless values and scientific notation?

heycam: I think they should

krit: for example transform-origin="100,100"

… I agree

… I wrote some test cases without thinking about, and I wrote unitless values

… I think it's more native for SVG people to use unitless values

… as well as scientific notation

… using user units makes more sense in an SVG context than using px

… so I propose we support both in all presentation attributes

heycam: what is the set of new presentation attributes?

<krit> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/

<krit> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#property-index

cyril: so perspective, perspective-origin and transform-origin

heycam: I think authors will expect to be able to use user units

<ed> also see http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html

<ed> issue#2

ed: issue 2 in that document covers exactly this issue

krit: do we have to specify the syntax in the css spec?

heycam: do you want a link to SVG length/number syntax?

krit: at the moment they are not specified

<krit> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#transform-attribute-specificity

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html#issue2

heycam: I think it would be better to link or define the syntax of the presentation
... easiest would be to link to <length> and <number> from 1.1's types chapter

<krit> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/types.html

heycam: the issue 2 in the animation proposal aligns with what we want then, user units allowed in presentation attributes

ed: I assume we would support all of the new units in the presentation attributes

heycam: what about calc()?
... just want to be sure the grammar/parser will work with say scientific notation inside calc expressions

ed: I think we should try to stay as close to the css syntax where we can

heycam: do you want to allow unitless values in the middle of calc?

ed: good question

shepazu: I would want to

krit: for webkit it wouldn't be a problem

RESOLUTION: SVG WG is happy with allowing unitless numbers and scientific notation in the css transforms presentation attributes

ISSUE: Should we allow unitless numbers and scientific notation inside calc expressions in presentation attributes?

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2442 - Should we allow unitless numbers and scientific notation inside calc expressions in presentation attributes? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2442/edit .

<scribe> ACTION: Dirk to mail public-fx about unitless numbers in presentation attributes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3254 - Mail public-fx about unitless numbers in presentation attributes [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-03-29].

intrinsic sizing and percetnage values for inline svg in html

ed: some questions from our layout team about sizing of svg in html

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0158.html

… would like to know mozilla's opinion on this given their open bugs

… this needs clarifying in a spec somewhere

ISSUE-2241?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2241 -- 1. Introduction - More explanations about the used coordinate system -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2241

ed: I think this is specific to where you have percetanges specified, or not specified at all, and whether or not they define an intrinsic size/ratio

… I think it comes down to how you want to resolve the lengths, and tweaking the spec wording to that effect

… reading the mozilla bug, it seems that mozilla went and did something else

… so it would be nice to have something defined in the spec

… we have at least three different behaviours among the 4 browsers

heycam: do you have an opinion on which way to resolve it?

ed: I would prefer if it doesn't break a lot of content, of course

… in the first case what opera/firefox do at the moment would be good

… for the second example, I'm not sure either way

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2441 has more details than the mail

https://bug668163.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=545713

krit: there is a webkit bug about that, so it might be changed a bit

<glenn> dropping now, have another appt

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to ask jwatt about the percentage sizing issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3255 - Ask jwatt about the percentage sizing issue [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-03-29].

ACTION-3255: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2441

<trackbot> ACTION-3255 Ask jwatt about the percentage sizing issue notes added

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Succeeded: s/topic: SVG 2.0 require,emts/topic: SVG 2.0 requireemts/
FAILED: s/topic: SVG 2.0 require,emts/topic: SVG 2.0 requiremets/
Succeeded: s/would it be aproblem if you resize a window/isn't this equivalent to the use case of clicking on a border to resize a window/
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Found ScribeNick: krit
Found ScribeNick: heycam
Inferring Scribes: krit, heycam
Scribes: krit, heycam
ScribeNicks: krit, heycam
Default Present: heycam, glenn, ed, Doug_Schepers, cyril, +1.415.832.aaaa, krit, Tav
Present: heycam glenn ed Doug_Schepers cyril +1.415.832.aaaa krit Tav
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0170.html
Found Date: 22 Mar 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: cameron dirk heycam nikos

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