HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

22 Mar 2012


See also: IRC log


Judy, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Leif_Halvard_Silli, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich


<trackbot> Date: 22 March 2012

<janina> trackbot, start meeting

<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference

<scribe> scribe: David

jb: will text Rich

Clarifications on Issues Raised Last Week

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Mar/0319.html

Janina: questions came up last week concerned... need to clarify... tf has authority by charter to come to consensus decision and make recommendations... 2 did we come to consensus on longdesc... js sent out uri with charter, and the formal email that js sent notifying us our consensus...

jb: clarifyies that Mike S last week was not accurate... need to ensure that is is clear that that we do have Charter to make recommendations, developing consensus and make recommendations... many worked hard to reach consensus

jb... rich will join call soon

Longdesc and the New ARIA-DescribedAt

js: longdesc and describedAT, quicker to talk about it than email...

rs... DescribedAT not a proposal... it is a wai aria enhancement of longdesc... not getting in middle of longdesc... not an offical draft, need to follow process, so it's a personal proposal, until approved by aria group... wants to talk to manufacturers... what is different. don't care what it's called

rs describeda alloies to all elements of host language including SVG etc..

if we knew atribute was available cold we put it on the video tag... etc... in shoulds... would like to see browsers ... walking into museum with kiosk... could touch a picture of giraffe find out more information... visual indication tat it is present. if so can be acivated and brought up and closed and left the user were they were... problem with longdesc... but never provided that level...

scribe: of functionality...

aria up to this point has not been used to tell the browser how to render certain things, so i need to talk to those manufacturers to get their fedback on whether it makes sense to go forward..browser needs to provide a mechanism to bring this up

js need to think about how we react.... are we still in support of longdesc? describedby has been kicked around need to ask whether to put that to bed...

jf describedby will not have api

rs well actually yes... will be in the api... in iaccessible2 query it... and an alternative input device, you could put the activating o the alternate keyboard.l.. onscreen keyboard... it would be exposed to the api... probably can do it uia

cynthia... yes we could do that in uia

js should be a visual indication that it is there...

jf woulc it be hidden

rs it would be in url

rs not good in fallback content in canvas

rs would be fully navigable

janina let's keep it to strategy...

rs aria is not constrained by timeline of html

jb interesting... have questions... where is it being designed... in aria space... encourage rs to stay close to aria task force...

jb html wg side of things... this has been focusing discussion... early implementation ideas, can be problematic before it iws discussed with aria group... is this taking focus away from the longdesc ... doesn't remove need for conformant bridge...

dialogue has shifted in last few days... percieved as a proposal... what can we do to clarify that we need longdesc

rs not taking a public position o longdesc... until aria 1.1 is implemented in browsers... wont' see aria 1.1 until a newerversion of a browser has it... in browsers today longdesc not well supported... fixing longesc will require several... won't see any major changes in FF until about version 15

can't pull longdesc out now

jb concerned that we've opened up a big issue with describedat...

and confused longdesc...

rs regarding enhancing longdesc... is that going to confuse descibedAT

jf issue 30, 195, 204, with this issue... timing couldn't be worse... chairs won't make decision because there seems to be active discussion

cynthiaa shelly the value is it's out of html politics, and it will solve the technical problems, and getting it into aria is better

jf specific to 195 sylvia asked for extension... rs released wai-aria to issues... propose a resolution including longdesc

cynthia this is an engineering.... obsolete but conforming longdesc... we should back of of longdesc

jb obsolete but conforming causes an error flag.... concerned about that

rs a warning would be a benefit, not an error

jb thought rs was proposing a conversion path

janina obsolete but conforming would still require chairs to move on it... it's not in there at all right now

zakim/ next item

zakim /next item

Leif motivation for proposal to extend longdesc...

proposes any element that is an image

CS thins its reasonable... from an engineering proposal it's the same as described at, my main propblem with longdesc is that it was underspecified... at the end of the day it's an attribute...

rs to me its a strategy discussion... i would want something that can be applied to other host technologies... i have a consistent set of attributes... that the value of aria

rs would rather take wai aria approach

want something that could be put on a DIV.... there has got to be a path, but don't want browsers to yank it out... so obsolete but conforming would be better... an unofficial draft...

leif... RS said aria describedAT should be visual indication?

rs yes

leif laura's longdesc proposal is saying is should not be a visual indication.

jf the issue ... cannot expect graphic designer to put something... but that goes back to d link which was unsuccessful... perhaps a user setting in the browser bakes it visual, not a responsibility o the graphic designer...

js does longdesc continue to be developed, or should designing energy need to go into describedAT.

jb we should extend the meeting to 90 minutes by starting 30 minutes earlier... on future meetings...


rs ian put in a path proposal into canvas, no discussion... confuses issues... Microsoft won't support... for hit testing, introduces a path.... doesn't help hit testing...

rs dom and web components... ian is suggesting you can use another dom... messes up the native host language you are applying that to... even if you had a host language with feathers... alluding to an object model that we haven't seen..

<LeifHSilli> Note on @Longdesc: I disagree with "obsolete but conforming". May be in HTML6. But not in HTML5. The perspective that we can get @aria-describedAT is a strong reason to only make @longdesc valid for <img>.

rs ian is making changes without us being able to review them... it's in the WHAT space... concerns me... if it's going to be introduced over here...

js thinks it's more HTML.next

Cynthia this wold be a huge project and is beyond Ian... even if was it would take ... year to get it right.... or more... way too big a project in HTML5 timeline

<MichaelC> chair: Janina_Sajka

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.136 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012/03/22 16:11:18 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Rcih/Rich/
Succeeded: s/ensure/ensure that is is clear that/
Succeeded: s/extend 30 minutes/extend the meeting to 90 minutes by starting 30 minutes earlier/
Succeeded: s/underestimated/underspecified/
Found Scribe: David
Inferring ScribeNick: David
Default Present: Judy, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Leif_Halvard_Silli, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich
Present: Judy David_MacDonald John_Foliot Cooper Janina_Sajka Leif_Halvard_Silli Cynthia_Shelly Rich
Regrets: Laura_Carlson
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Mar/0318.html
Found Date: 22 Mar 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]