note text-related issues re-opened and/or still pending decisions

<scribe> scribe: judy

js: chairs re-open title last week
... they have not yet re-opened meta name generator
... that has been pending only a week or two so far

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-31 Inappropriate Alt in HTML Spec -- Steve

<janina> Issue-31 Location of Alt Authoring Guidance Reconsideration -- Steve

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-31 Meta Generator Reconsideration Request

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming -- Steve

<janina> Accepted

<janina> Issue-80 Title Reconsideration Request -- Steve

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitlev2

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0073.html

<janina> See also Issue-192 below

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-131 Canvas

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Dec/0048.html

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Dec/0059.html

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0086.html

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-164 HGroup

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/164

<janina> Message-ID: <20120206190736.GD5717@sonata.rednote.net>

<janina> Filed -- But is this also 80 above?

<janina> Issue-192 Title -- Steve

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0076.html

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-193 Bad CSS Example

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0070.html

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/outlinenone

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-194 Media Full Transcript

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/Issue194

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0073.html

<janina> 16 February

<janina> Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0078.html

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-201 Canvas Fallback -- Frank

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0121.html

<janina> 16 February

<janina> Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count -- Judy

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202

<janina> 18 February

<janina> Issue-203 Media Element Text Description -- John

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0084.html

jb: ok, reviewing all of the text ones now....

Issues of relevance to the text sub-group: 31; 80; 192; 202; 203.

jb: And so, of those text-related ones, short status:

issue 31 (loc of alt guidance, incorrect alt, meta name generator):

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-31 Inappropriate Alt in HTML Spec -- Steve

<janina> Issue-31 Location of Alt Authoring Guidance Reconsideration -- Steve

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt

<janina> Filed

<janina> Issue-31 Meta Generator Reconsideration Request

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming -- Steve

<janina> Accepted

<janina> Issue-80 Title Reconsideration Request -- Steve

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitlev2

<janina> Filed -- But is this also 80 above?

<janina> Issue-192 Title -- Steve

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0076.html

<janina> 16 February

<janina> Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count -- Judy

<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202

<janina> 18 February

<janina> Issue-203 Media Element Text Description -- John

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0084.html

31: inappropriate alt is filed WITH location of alt guidance

we need to recommend this CP up to the TF for retro support

JS: there is a fundamental underlying issue that is still confused in the WG and that we could still address more directly

JB: what's that specific issue?

JS: concerns about WG decision policy

JB: we are still providing info into the decision process
... and we now have the CP re-raising our concern on that.

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt

Based on current status of this CP, we will move it into TF discuss for their approval as a TF-supported CP even though it was already filed by the deadline anyway.

JS: Done. (I'm chairing this week.)

JB: the third part of 31 is meta-name generator, which we gave the chairs recently; if no response from chairs by March 9, we'll re-ping them.

JS: putting in tickler.

JB: 80; title; they re-opened it; next step is on the Chairs to call for CP's; if no Call for CP's by March 9? or earlier? from chairs, re-ping

192 -- also called title, same CP seems to apply,

Janina will check w/ Steve & disambiguate as needed.

202: status on fig-caption

JB: still on her & thanks for the skeleton.

203: this is the media element text description, e.g. alt and longdesc on media elements

JS: recc'd to the chairs that this be deferred till longdesc decided, but file conditionally in the meantime
... sent a message to the list to that effect, but no reply yet.

JB: re-send it and ask again for a response?

JS: may need some writing from JohnF
... I'll follow up w/ John
... and I'll put on the agenda Thurs

30: Longdesc

JS: this morning the Chairs opened a new issue, how aria-hidden should be handled.
... note that this is exactly the opposite of what the ARIA TF proposes.

JB: one concern is that none of the discussion leading up to this was copied to html-a11y; re-raise the procedural concern; cross-copy the thread starter for reference.

JS: second concern is that neither the chairs nor the WG have demonstrated that the existing longdesc mechanism is inadequate.

JB: raise this as a procedural concern? and also request evidence that the existing mechanism is inadequate?

JS: yes; and third concern has to do with the approach of their new issue #204

<janina> Here's Sam's email opening Issue-204:

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0199.html

note Laura's withdrawing of support for polling on 204 ahead of issue 30: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0109.html

(looking at the record)

note Janina's statement that using ARIA described-by in this way will not work; and further that it shows a failing to understand one of the key user requirement for long text descriptions.

JB: and it yet further extends again the time for resolving issue 30, as Laura has pointed out clearly.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0109.html

scribe: and here is your statement noting that re-defining ARIA behavior for described-by is unlikely to work (actually, it jeopardizes other things that ARIA described-by is intended to do);

JS: ...and furthermore, that if they wish to suggest changed behavior for ARIA, that should be taken up directly with PFWG -- for instance on the xtech mailing list, or on the Joint HTML A11Y TF mailing list -- rather than as an HTML WG-only issue.
... So despite the inadequate coordination, there is now a new call for proposals on a new issue, raising questions regarding core defined behavior in ARIA, with a two-week deadline, just as we are heading into the busiest conference season of the year.
... and this would be significant extra effort, despite the HTML Chairs & WG not having demonstrated (as i said above) that the existing mechanism, longdesc, does not adequately address the needs on the table.
... so it seems that the Chairs should first withdraw 204, and then move forward on 30, and only then come back to 204 on an as-needed basis.

JB: and we need an updated coordination meeting w/ Chairs.

discuss CP for WG location of alt guidance, and recommend for TF support as appropriate http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt

JB: as above, we recommended this up to TF for their consideration for support

discuss CP for figcaption

JB: still attempting text

confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status

JS: perhaps Laura can help us update the TF wiki according to the updated status text CPs above in the minutes

note any procedural issues needing clarification

JB: as per minutes above

confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn

NEXT MEETING IS NEXT TUESDAY FEBRUARY 21, 1:00PM EST

NEXT SCRIBE: (not me!!! -- jb) -- Janina or another volunteer....

adjourn!

<scribe> scribe: judy

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/thanks the/thanks for the/
Succeeded: s/anadequate/inadequate/
Succeeded: s/demonstrated the/demonstrated that the/
Succeeded: s/lots, //
Found Scribe: judy
Inferring ScribeNick: Judy
Found Scribe: judy
Inferring ScribeNick: Judy
Present: Janina_Sajka Judy_Brewer

WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list!

Regrets: Laura_Carlson John_Foliot Michael_Cooper Steve_Faulkner
Got date from IRC log name: 14 Feb 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-text-minutes.html
People with action items: