See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: judy
js: chairs re-open title last
week
... they have not yet re-opened meta name generator
... that has been pending only a week or two so far
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-31 Inappropriate Alt in HTML Spec -- Steve
<janina> Issue-31 Location of Alt Authoring Guidance Reconsideration -- Steve
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-31 Meta Generator Reconsideration Request
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming -- Steve
<janina> Accepted
<janina> Issue-80 Title Reconsideration Request -- Steve
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitlev2
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0073.html
<janina> See also Issue-192 below
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-131 Canvas
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Dec/0048.html
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Dec/0059.html
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0086.html
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-164 HGroup
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/164
<janina> Message-ID: <20120206190736.GD5717@sonata.rednote.net>
<janina> Filed -- But is this also 80 above?
<janina> Issue-192 Title -- Steve
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0076.html
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-193 Bad CSS Example
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0070.html
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/outlinenone
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-194 Media Full Transcript
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/Issue194
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0073.html
<janina> 16 February
<janina> Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0078.html
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-201 Canvas Fallback -- Frank
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0121.html
<janina> 16 February
<janina> Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count -- Judy
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
<janina> 18 February
<janina> Issue-203 Media Element Text Description -- John
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0084.html
jb: ok, reviewing all of the text ones now....
Issues of relevance to the text sub-group: 31; 80; 192; 202; 203.
jb: And so, of those text-related ones, short status:
issue 31 (loc of alt guidance, incorrect alt, meta name generator):
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-31 Inappropriate Alt in HTML Spec -- Steve
<janina> Issue-31 Location of Alt Authoring Guidance Reconsideration -- Steve
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
<janina> Filed
<janina> Issue-31 Meta Generator Reconsideration Request
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming -- Steve
<janina> Accepted
<janina> Issue-80 Title Reconsideration Request -- Steve
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitlev2
<janina> Filed -- But is this also 80 above?
<janina> Issue-192 Title -- Steve
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0076.html
<janina> 16 February
<janina> Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count -- Judy
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
<janina> 18 February
<janina> Issue-203 Media Element Text Description -- John
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0084.html
31: inappropriate alt is filed WITH location of alt guidance
we need to recommend this CP up to the TF for retro support
JS: there is a fundamental underlying issue that is still confused in the WG and that we could still address more directly
JB: what's that specific issue?
JS: concerns about WG decision policy
JB: we are still providing info
into the decision process
... and we now have the CP re-raising our concern on that.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
Based on current status of this CP, we will move it into TF discuss for their approval as a TF-supported CP even though it was already filed by the deadline anyway.
JS: Done. (I'm chairing this week.)
JB: the third part of 31 is meta-name generator, which we gave the chairs recently; if no response from chairs by March 9, we'll re-ping them.
JS: putting in tickler.
JB: 80; title; they re-opened it; next step is on the Chairs to call for CP's; if no Call for CP's by March 9? or earlier? from chairs, re-ping
192 -- also called title, same CP seems to apply,
Janina will check w/ Steve & disambiguate as needed.
202: status on fig-caption
JB: still on her & thanks for the skeleton.
203: this is the media element text description, e.g. alt and longdesc on media elements
JS: recc'd to the chairs that
this be deferred till longdesc decided, but file conditionally
in the meantime
... sent a message to the list to that effect, but no reply
yet.
JB: re-send it and ask again for a response?
JS: may need some writing from
JohnF
... I'll follow up w/ John
... and I'll put on the agenda Thurs
30: Longdesc
JS: this morning the Chairs
opened a new issue, how aria-hidden should be handled.
... note that this is exactly the opposite of what the ARIA TF
proposes.
JB: one concern is that none of the discussion leading up to this was copied to html-a11y; re-raise the procedural concern; cross-copy the thread starter for reference.
JS: second concern is that neither the chairs nor the WG have demonstrated that the existing longdesc mechanism is inadequate.
JB: raise this as a procedural concern? and also request evidence that the existing mechanism is inadequate?
JS: yes; and third concern has to do with the approach of their new issue #204
<janina> Here's Sam's email opening Issue-204:
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0199.html
note Laura's withdrawing of support for polling on 204 ahead of issue 30: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0109.html
(looking at the record)
note Janina's statement that using ARIA described-by in this way will not work; and further that it shows a failing to understand one of the key user requirement for long text descriptions.
JB: and it yet further extends again the time for resolving issue 30, as Laura has pointed out clearly.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0109.html
scribe: and here is your statement noting that re-defining ARIA behavior for described-by is unlikely to work (actually, it jeopardizes other things that ARIA described-by is intended to do);
JS: ...and furthermore, that if
they wish to suggest changed behavior for ARIA, that should be
taken up directly with PFWG -- for instance on the xtech
mailing list, or on the Joint HTML A11Y TF mailing list --
rather than as an HTML WG-only issue.
... So despite the inadequate coordination, there is now a new
call for proposals on a new issue, raising questions regarding
core defined behavior in ARIA, with a two-week deadline, just
as we are heading into the busiest conference season of the
year.
... and this would be significant extra effort, despite the
HTML Chairs & WG not having demonstrated (as i said above)
that the existing mechanism, longdesc, does not adequately
address the needs on the table.
... so it seems that the Chairs should first withdraw 204, and
then move forward on 30, and only then come back to 204 on an
as-needed basis.
JB: and we need an updated coordination meeting w/ Chairs.
JB: as above, we recommended this up to TF for their consideration for support
JB: still attempting text
JS: perhaps Laura can help us update the TF wiki according to the updated status text CPs above in the minutes
JB: as per minutes above
NEXT MEETING IS NEXT TUESDAY FEBRUARY 21, 1:00PM EST
NEXT SCRIBE: (not me!!! -- jb) -- Janina or another volunteer....
adjourn!
<scribe> scribe: judy
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/thanks the/thanks for the/ Succeeded: s/anadequate/inadequate/ Succeeded: s/demonstrated the/demonstrated that the/ Succeeded: s/lots, // Found Scribe: judy Inferring ScribeNick: Judy Found Scribe: judy Inferring ScribeNick: Judy Present: Janina_Sajka Judy_Brewer WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list! Regrets: Laura_Carlson John_Foliot Michael_Cooper Steve_Faulkner Got date from IRC log name: 14 Feb 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-text-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]