W3C

- DRAFT -

SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

07 Feb 2012

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
kasei, cbuilara, +33.4.92.38.aaaa, Olivier_, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, alexpassant, +49.897.aacc, +44.020.843.9.aadd, AxelPolleres?, AndyS, swh, chimezie
Regrets
Lee, sandro
Chair
axelPolleres
Scribe
Alexpassant

Contents

<trackbot> Date: 07 February 2012

<AndyS> Alex - I'm you! Will flip.

<AndyS> zkiam, IPCaller.a is me

<swh> voip not working for me today, had to call US

I'm here

sure

Zakim: alexpassant.a is me

<AxelPolleres> scribe: Alexpassant

<swh> AxelPolleres, BTW, the UK number on the agenda no longer works

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to mail sandro about loss of UK number [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-586 - Mail sandro about loss of UK number [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14].

french number seems also down

admin

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31

<Olivier_> french phone number does not work

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31

AxelPolleres: no comments about last minutes

… approving minutes

<AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-02-14 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST

… next meeting in a week

<Olivier_> regrets for next week

<cbuilara> regrets for next week too

<AxelPolleres> nicholas or steve to scribe next time

… scribe will be SteveH

RDF liaison

… liaison with RDF WG

AndyS: several things to report

… first one is about QUADS

… proposed to adopt TRIG to dump RDF stores

… one issue is that the WG is not decided if QUADS will be used for NG

… may lead to 2 architectures for named graphs in W3C

… no decision yet

comments

<AndyS> I updated the comments: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

AxelPolleres: 2 pending comments

… one already discussed on the list

<AxelPolleres> JP-4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0009.html

<AndyS> 7 LC comments

… JP-4

… would like to open discussion about it

AndyS: bglimm discussed issues between properties path and entailment

… may be marked as optional feature

<bglimm> I wrote an email about it just before the teleconf: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0128.html

AxelPolleres: no option to mark something as optional.

… can be not normative / informative, not sure there's other alternative

AndyS: clash between styles, more UC-driven versus computational-theory background

AxelPolleres: should probably answer that 1) we value their work to point the issue and give options for optimization 2) tone that down for CR version of their paper

… their paper propose an orthogonal way to look at property path

<AndyS> DISTINCT(:p*)

<AndyS> :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r

<AndyS> ?x :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r ?z .

<kasei> I agree with AndyS about defaulting to the counting semantics

Olivier_: may have a DISTINCT keyword in the path. could help to solve the problem

… could also build artificial queries w/o path that are very expensive

I haven't checked the issue in detail

<swh> FWIW I read the mail, but haven't implemented PPs, so no real opinion

<cbuilara> Ihavent checked the email in detail

<AxelPolleres> Strawpoll... We keep defaulting to counting paths semantics (+1)

<swh> 0

<kasei> +1

<MattPerry> +1

<cbuilara> 0

0

<chimezie> 0 (not very well swapped into issue(s))

<bglimm> 0 (not being able to follow the spoken discussion)

<AndyS> +1

<AndyS> Also - issue about another LC cycle.

<AxelPolleres> 0

<Olivier_> 0 need to think about it more

AxelPolleres: no one strongly to change the default behavior

<kasei> are we discussing adding the DISTINCT(pp) thing in 1.1? or just leaving it open for the future?

<AxelPolleres> Andy: Another LC cycle is anyways necessary if we change the grammar

<chimezie> i would like to be swapped in, just didn't find the time to read the email(s) in detail - so inclined to concur with WG

<AxelPolleres> probably discuss with team contacts whether this is still possible in our current schedule

<AxelPolleres> Option 1... keep everything as it is in the grammar, and explain which DISTINCT path subqueries can be optimized, Option 2 ... add DISTINCT around paths.

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to summarize option 1 and 2 in email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-587 - Summarize option 1 and 2 in email [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14].

<AxelPolleres> we strive for a decision next week.

AxelPolleres: next comment MO-1

<AxelPolleres> next one: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0010.html

<kasei> Andy suggested new wording: "sd:availableGraphs Relates an instance of sd:Service to a description of the __usable__ graphs where the service limits the scope of the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request."

<kasei> ("__usable__" wording is mine)

<AndyS> I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes and leave the decision to the editor.

<AndyS> I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes or not and leave the decision to the editor.

<AxelPolleres> "allowed?"

kasei: will make change about wording if everyone is ok

<kasei> current wording: "Relates an instance of <a href="#sd-Service"><code>sd:Service</code></a> to a description of the graphs that may be used in the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request."

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: kasei to draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-588 - Draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-02-14].

test cases/implementations

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Andy to ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-589 - Ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-02-14].

<Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to note action 579

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05

<kasei> +1

<AxelPolleres> +!

<AxelPolleres> +1

<Olivier_> +1

<AndyS> +1

<MattPerry> +1

<chimezie> +1

<swh> +

<swh> +1

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05

AxelPolleres: next topic : update TC

… discussion on COPY and MOVE

… can approve all TC except COPY-5 and MOVE-5

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move05 and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy05

<kasei> +1

<MattPerry> +1

<swh> I'm not confident about MOVE COPY at the moment

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy??

<AxelPolleres> +1

<kasei> +1

<Olivier_> +1

<MattPerry> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1

<AndyS> +1

+1

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy??

<AxelPolleres> can we approve json-res/manifest#jsonres01

<kasei> I have no idea why we didn't approve it before, but that certainly seems like it would be relevant...

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16#resolution_2

<AndyS> kasei, the triple for non-classified wasn't removed. Will fix.

<AndyS> kasei: the triple for non-classified wasn't removed. Will fix.

<MattPerry> bye

<AndyS> ADJOURNED

<AxelPolleres> we'll discuss the copy and move test cases next week and I'll drop paul a mail where he is regarding the update rewording.

<kasei> I'll update the test manifests with the new approval status.

RRSAgent: make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Andy to ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: axel to mail sandro about loss of UK number [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Axel to summarize option 1 and 2 in email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: kasei to draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html#action03]
 
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$Date: 2012/02/07 16:02:54 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Alexpassant
Inferring ScribeNick: alexpassant
Default Present: kasei, cbuilara, +33.4.92.38.aaaa, Olivier_, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, alexpassant, +49.897.aacc, +44.020.843.9.aadd, AxelPolleres?, AndyS, swh, chimezie
Present: kasei cbuilara +33.4.92.38.aaaa Olivier_ +1.603.897.aabb MattPerry alexpassant +49.897.aacc +44.020.843.9.aadd AxelPolleres? AndyS swh chimezie
Regrets: Lee sandro
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-02-07
Found Date: 07 Feb 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html
People with action items: andy axel kasei

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