Shawn: Shadi when will the demo be ready?
Shadi: early next week , Tuesday Wednesday?
Vicki: My deadline is today but won't issue for a couple of weeks
Shawn: OK to include, Shadi?
Shadi: Yes, good to have the incentive.
Shawn: Everyone else wait to announce anything until you get the flag.
<Vicki> shadi, is the final url: http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad ?
Sharron: Talked with Char and
will catch up with Wayne over the weekend.
... we will have some preliminary plans Monday
Shawn: Once you have some stuff
in the wiki, email the list to let them know to review the plan
and the content
... maybe put something on the page so folks know not to promote
... until Shadi gives us the green light
... A reminder for those who have not yet heard of this, you can set the wiki to set a "Watch" using that tab. You will then get notification when the page is updated
Jennifer: It sends just once a day even if there are many changes
Shawn: Sends just one until you go look at it. Once you go look, it will notify if another change is made.
Andrew: Do you need to log in?
Shawn: For me, I click the link and it works. Not sure if it is because I am auto-logged in or why, but seems to work.
Shawn: when you make edits, please add a quick note in the summary field. If you fix a typo or
spacing, you can select "This is a minor edit" and think it will not
... Everyone continue to add and watch for the update and comment. Thanks.
Shawn: How to Make Presentations
Accessible to All and I want to review comments that have come
in. Denis, I have a couple of follow-up questions.
... went through those comments and thanks for sending and thanks to Vicki, Jason and Andrew for their comments. Seems like agreement is for the last option.
Sharron: Sylvie put more detailed
comments in this morning, linked from IRC
... comments for discussions?
Shawn: Then let's just look at changes, sent previously by email.
<shawn> draft revision: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/training/access_pres
<Vicki> works for me
<AndrewA> I liked it
Shawn: After h2s I specified whether it was intended for speakers, organizers or both. What are your thoughts?
<Sylvie> Works for me too
Sharron: Seems clear.
Wayne: It's really good. That was missing all along, very good addition.
Shawn: The other major revision. In the "Basics" section, combined a few sections here. Can we pick this apart for a minute, at a high level?
Sharron: Like this combination
Andrew: Yes, it starts with issues about how people may or may not receive your message, and then discusses other issues that may arise due to disability, illness, etc, finishing with 'be prepared'.
Shawn: Too text heavy?
Wayne: No it is appropriate here.
Vicki: I might change the order somewhat.
Shawn: If you read it from the top, we have a similar idea right above it.
Vicki: Then perhaps streamline to avoid redundancy.
Shawn: Is the sentence too long?
Vicki: Sounds like intro to page so should be first.
<shawn> RESOLUTION: Editor think about "This page helps..." sentence placement & wording
Shawn: Will people skip "Basics"?
My hope is that people will use this who do not know a lot
about it and so will be interested in Basics.
... The other thing I added to the end "Give speakers accessibility requirements and guidance..."
<Vicki> very good
Jennifer: I like the addition a lot
Shawn: This section is the longest and it is the last. Does it belong here?
Jennifer: I think it is fine here.
Shawn: Comfortable with "consider including it in any contracts..."
Wayne: Excellent addition
Jennifer: ... Yes
Shawn: Those were significant
changes and will respond to Sylvie's comments today.
... any other comments?
... I will respond to Denis and Sylvie and that's it as far as I know.
Sylvie: I have a small concern with the style here because the statements of "this page does this or that..." and the order of it.
Shawn: Similar to Vicki's comment
so I will take an editorial pass at that.
... started talking about this in December, sent note to EO last week and hoping that we can consider it done and promote in February in prep for CSUN and other conferences.
Jennifer: I am OK with it as is.
Vicki: Very good
Liam: Very good
Wayne: Yes, good
Andrew: Last round of changes improved it significantly, very good
Shawn: Will send email when completed, and expect it done by end of month.
Jennifer: promoting both BAD and this will be OK
Wayne: Do we have a group working on blurbs so we can get them out in early Feb?
Shawn: People have been putting
ideas in there and all are encouraged to continue.
... will consider a short, quick W3C blog post.
... can use the intro statement as the promo.
Wayne: It could
Shawn: Put in context with conference session.
<LiamM> it meets the requirement for ethos (authority), pathos (emotional appeal) and logos (rational appeal) for every piece of persuasive writing.
Shawn: Anything else on this? This is a great opportunity to reach out to people who may not have been aware of this work before.
Shawn: Refresh to get links to related materials
Shawn: If you read the minutes from the F2F meeting, we need to determine how to meet this great opportunity. The work in W3C is this effort to development learning materials and integrate accessibility into web training.
a previous work.
Shawn: There is good information,
needs updated and not really a curriculum yet. Much of what is
here is related to material that we already have in other
... we have training resource suite, more outlines of potential training developed with Andrew's leadership. Not really content, but outlines of learning objectives, etc. Suzette has sent other resources to list.
<shawn> Suzette's e-mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2012JanMar/0018.html
<LiamM> Suzette: Involved in development of curriculum guidelines: design for all, as Masters level. Developed a set of curriculum guidelines - one of the modules is on Accessible web design.
<LiamM> Suzette: Creative Commons licence.
<LiamM> Shawn: info in suzettes email - info on what students should learn and how you could organize the course?
<LiamM> Suzette: Yes, outline info is important for academics. You need the outline before your university/government will allow you to run the course.
<LiamM> Suzette: Concentrates on structure and outcomes, rather than materials. Can be hard to share materials due to copyright restrictions
<LiamM> Shawn: the material is approx 4 printed pages. Please read it before next week.
<LiamM> Shawn: Web Education community group uses terms that we may not understand in the same way as they do. E.g. 'Learning Materials'
<LiamM> Suzette: example: curriculum, syllabus, course, module can be opposite in meaning across the atlantic, or in just the English channel.
<LiamM> Suzette: "Learning outcomes/learning objectives" is generally understood
<LiamM> Suzette: "course materials" refers to handouts, quizzes etc. in UK
<LiamM> Wayne: same in USA
<LiamM> Shawn: Suzette, opinion on next steps?
<LiamM> Suzette: hard to know which public domain materials is latest version. Some materials on W3C assume you are already involved in web dev with some bad habits, perhaps. New learners do not have these bad habits yet, so persuasion requirement is different.
<LiamM> Suzette: W3C materials not always that useful for new students due to audience it's aimed at.
<LiamM> Wayne: Students need less 'convincing' - just want to know what good web design looks like.
<LiamM> Group: general warm feeling towards new students of web design.
<LiamM> Shawn: other thoughts?
<shawn> Liam: not much around philosophy underlying why we do thinking in certain way
<shawn> ... in current material
<LiamM> Liam: e.g. aesthetics, ethics, epistemology
<LiamM> Liam: semantics
<LiamM> Wayne: +1
<LiamM> Suzette: Didn't include ethics and business case elements in the existing materials is that those issues had already been covered in a more general module.
<LiamM> Shawn: Need leader(s). Needs to define scope. volunteers?
<LiamM> Liam: Yes.
<LiamM> Wayne: yes with time constraints?
<LiamM> Shadi: what is the scope?
<LiamM> Shawn: Part of the
scope is to define the scope. Timing is curriculum developed
and snap-shotted within 3-6 months.
this topic could take three full time people for two years.
so need to define scope based on resources available and 6 month timeframe.
scope also what could be done with more funding/resource
<LiamM> shawn: need to ensure that we integrate with all the other materials - that examples used are best practice for accessibility etc.
<LiamM> Liam: is anything out of scope?
<LiamM> Liam: who else is involved?
<LiamM> Shawn: Chris Mills at Opera is involved with the project
<shawn> Web Education Community Group http://www.w3.org/community/webed/
<LiamM> Shawn: Chris is chair. Ben Friedman is also chair.
<LiamM> Shawn: 80 participants but not all active
<LiamM> Suzette: query level aimed at: university?
<LiamM> Shawn: consider this as part of scooping discussion: high school? Self learning?
<LiamM> Wayne: agree with Liam about fairly broad scope. If we are integrating into process of development, then need to accept that someone does not become an accessibility expert, but rather needs to be a developer who uses accessibility. The question is how you teach development making accessibility a natural part of it.
<LiamM> Wayne: suggests start with what do we need, and only then look at what do we have. Rather than casting what we need through the lens of what we already have.
<LiamM> Shawn: agree. We can start from scratch if we want to.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say both young students, as well as existing developers & designers
<LiamM> Shawn: are we
targeting schoolchildren? Existing developers?
maybe we say that there stuff out there for existing developers, less out there for students.
<shawn> Liam:... figured out what we wished engineers knew, then worked out [?when to teach what]
<LiamM> Liam: maybe look at all the things we wish the perfect dev knew, and then work out at what level each topic should be taught.
Shawn: Liam & Suzette OK with getting Action item for this?
<LiamM> Shawn: will set up wiki page.
<LiamM> ACTION: Liam work with suzette on roughing out a topic list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/20-eo-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Work with suzette on roughing out a topic list. [on Liam McGee - due 2012-01-27].
<LiamM> ACTION: Suzette work with Liam scooping out what we might want to do with web education and materials [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/20-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Work with Liam scooping out what we might want to do with web education and materials [on Suzette Keith - due 2012-01-27].
<suzette> liam - do you need my email address?
<LiamM> ACTION: Wayne to support Liam and Suzette on curriculum development [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/20-eo-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Support Liam and Suzette on curriculum development [on Wayne Dick - due 2012-01-27].
Shawn: Everyone on the call OK with getting an action item to read up on the material next week?
<Sylvie> no objections
<AndrewA> Dey Alexander in Oz also has good material - http://www.4syllables.com.au/articles/
<shawn> Denis - How is it going reviewing French translation of Contacting Orgs?
For Presentations, Shawn will make minor edits, Andrew researching For More Information resources, Shadi fighting with expand collapse functionality
<LiamM> Shawn: will race Andrew and Shadi to see who can get their bits done first.
<shawn> ACTIONS for everybody http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/#announcements
<shawn> Liam: how complete it needs to feel before released as first draft? right now feels missing a lot. e.g., section 5 on is just editors notes
<shawn> Liam: concern with "Non-essential content that cannot be made accessible." as loophole people will exploit
<shawn> ... will send comments to list
<shawn> Shadi: that type of comment good right now - thinks that might be interpreted not as we intended
<shawn> Liam: will info be in sections 5-7 before it goes out?
<shawn> Shadi: we're disusing that now.
<shawn> ... still unsure
<shawn> ... thoughts?
<shawn> Liam: personally, like to get drafts to public asap.
<shawn> ... [inaudible]
<shawn> Liam: 'webpage' & 'resource' used different places. suggest just use more familiar 'webpage' and define it as the broad thing
<LiamM> regarding cool Acronym for WCAG-EM -- uniqueness of acronym probably quite important as . Goggling for EARL is no fun at all - too many other variations.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say comfort with pub?
<LiamM> Last week I was all up for coming up with an Acronym that resulted in EWOK or NINJA or similar. Now not so sure! But WCAG-EM comes up with lots of references to WCAG and em units, so NOT that.