See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
<scribe> scribenick: ChrisL
ed: raised in css images spec a long time ago
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Dec/0427.html
ed: asking what to do when
border-image references an svg image.slices into 9,not clear
how it should work - split beforeor after computing aspect
ration
... elika says if we want it to work a particular way we should
define it, not css
heycam: does css spec give us some hooks?
ed: not sure
<ed> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/
heycam: section 3 in there
ed: also section 5.1
<ed> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#sizing
heycam: assume the way its defined is that you put the box for the outer svg element for the size before slicing up and nothing special to be done for aspect ration
ed: so you then stretch the bitmap
heycam: why
ed: where you renderthe border in a different aspect ratio
ChrisL: prefer to see this as clipping regions rather than re-scaling a raster result
heycam; like if you had an svg element in an htmldoc and set the width and height properties
<krit> krit in th channel yes
krit: is that on the border width of the element that uses svg as the border image?
heycam: maybe something can be done with intrinsiic aspect ratio?
krit: we have default values for width and height
heycam: the 300 150?
<krit> :)
heycam: whitespace on top and
bottom makes it less useful. put PAR none
... if you use a raster image, the middle parts get scaled?
ChrisL: you can scale them or replicate them
<krit> http://www.css3.info/preview/border-image/
Tav: need an example
ChrisL: a lot of stretch, which is why its better to do as a clip and render atthe exact size needed
<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/
heycam: sounds like we know what we want to put in the spec
ed: is there a test suite
ChrisL: a bit
ed: and none for this particular case? can take action to make some
<scribe> ACTION: erik to make css3 background and border tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3228 - Make css3 background and border tests [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-01-26].
heycam: suggested text that eleika pointed to in her second mail ....
<heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jan/0809.html
krit: from the second email we would not be able to use repeat, looks the same as stretch
heycam; seems like its done after the
ChrisL: need to work out an integer number of repeats, scale slightly so theywork out to an integer multiple
krit: yes
heycam: if you have an explicit
w&h on svg,can use that to do the repititions
... but if only an intrinsic aspect ratio
Tav: nothing to divide by
heycam: you dont have the intrinsic width
ChrisL: aim is to stretch the replicated part as little as possible
heycam: fit each of the 8 sections separately ... sounds sensible
ChrisL: we can define this and also give authoring guidelines to use it well
heycam; so weshould propose some wording back
ed: wanted to hear what group
thought of responses so far. want what is best for
authors
... so lets go for the separate sections
... getting a feel for what is most natural
heycam: good to work the same as for raster - consistency
ChrisL: while still gettingthe benefit of vector
heycam: yes
... someone should look into the repeating while preserving
aspect ratio before repeating
<scribe> ACTION: chris to look into the repeating while preserving aspect ratio before repeating [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3229 - Look into the repeating while preserving aspect ratio before repeating [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-01-26].
heycam: we are on the tiny 1.2ones - i will edit as we go
heycam: i like that
... as a way to render animated documents for a static
view
... easier to specify a particular time
ChrisL: it is good, but only for implementations that do animation and need a paster image
krit: if you have multipleanimations?
ChrisL: yes, its on the whole document
krit: and events
... events that are generated?
ChrisL: yes, you run the whole animation intil the clock is the snapshot time, then you render that state
heycam: in batik i did a set
current time
... so you get all the syncbase stuff. not sure if hyperlinking
dispatches the start and end events
... better to do like that rather thsn have two ways to seek
through the document
ChrisL: suggest we accept the requirement and tighten up the spec on how you seek
ed: spec does not say the snapshotTime image must be rendered for anything in the svg spec itself, it's suggested it may be used for still images, but doesn't require it to be used by the UA
heycam: printingis a case, for html when would it
ChrisL: (the use case was a set of animated icons, whose animation was disabled, but re-enabled on user interaction like mouseover) :)
heycam: the snapshot time could be the base values before you run the animation
ChrisL: need to stop it being displayed at the start of the animation though
heycam: happy to bring this over - would still be metadata
ChrisL: would be good to add a fragment like the view ones, to say render at the snapshot time
ed: strange that its optional on 1.2T - we could tighten it up
resolution: svg2 will add snapshot time for animated documents and may specify how to get at the rendered image
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/index.php?title=SVG2_Requirements_Input
heycam; wanted to get brian's input on the nextr few animation ones
<ed> here's an example of timelineBegin: http://dahlström.net/svg/smil/lennon-google-smil.svg
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementTimelineBegin
heycam: ties into alignment with
css animations, which do not wait for document load
... want to mail brian and ask before we decide on these
ChrisL: makes sense
ed: useful functionality, waiting for document load is poor for large files
<scribe> ACTION: cameron to mail brian about thesvgt 1.2 animation items [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3230 - Mail brian about thesvgt 1.2 animation items [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-01-26].
ChrisL: formats was to allow for audio and video where there is variable support
heycam: html5 does it differently
without a switch
... is it useful for content outside of video
ed: for raster image formats and other special image formats; also for audio
heycam; should use same mechanism as video
ed: not so useful for image formats
heycam; handling fallback for raster images is not well specified, but how often do people use other formats
ChrisL: bitonal tiff is common for cad
krit: so on video and audio, html5 does not use requiredFormats
heycam; right you use the track and the first supported one is used
scribe: you cant have other svg displayed conditional on the format support tough
heycam: media types do not
specify the codec
... what about codec registries
ChrisL; yes the intent is to add a parameter to the media type,to specify the codec
heycam; registry is for avi and wav containers
scribe: not clear its up to date
heycam: neutral on requiredFormats in general
krit; we don't need requiredFormats because html5 video and audio don't use it
ed: with downloadable fonts, requiredFonts is less useful
ChrisL: does add value if the font is 404, and it allows tro depend on a set of fonts being available. css does not have that although it has been requested
heycam; agree it is not otherwise available
ed: opera implements them both, not seen that much use. ok either way
ChrisL: with dl fonts its actually more useful to be able to do conditional based on a set of fonts
heycam; reqFonts is simpler than reqFornmats (no codec worries) so more in favor
scribe: still unsure about the switch-heavy approach in general
krit: neutral on requiredFonts
<ed> you can use the required* attributes without switch too
<ed> even if it's more useful with probably :)
heycam: accept requirement for requiredFonts
resolution: SVG2 wil adopt the
requiredFonts attribute
... SVG2 will not adopt the requiredFormats attribute
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_Progressive_Rendering_algorithm
ChrisL: this is good clarification
heycam; agree we should be more precise than with 1.1. Need to tie in with HTML5 document processing.
scribe: start with the text here and modify it wrt html5
resolution: SVG2 will add more precise text on progressive rendering, drawing on svgt 1.2 and html5
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_.3Cprefetch.3E_element
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#PrefetchElement
ChrisL: its for explicit prefetch rather than relying on @w or @h zero
heycam; in scripting this can be done with new image - but this works for non scripted
scribe: has a bunch of attrs that
are relevant for media, like how many seconds to prefetch and
how much bandwidth to use(!)
... not sure about the media-specific things
ChrisL: why
heycam; conflict with html5, and not sure thay are super useful
krit; spec says ua can ignore the prefetch hint
heycam: can have an image with visibility: hidden which causes prefetch - but would not want the audio to start
ed: opera did not implement this for media, just for images
ChrisL: remember we resolved to have a audio voume property so itcould be prefetched and muted
heycam: since we can prefetch
anyway, not sure how useful the optional prefetch hint is
... first para says svg 1.1does not define when referenced
resources start downloading. we should define thst, to make
vis: hidden prefetching reliable
... then we would not need prefetch element
krit: agree
ed: not that useful
ChrisL; ok
resolution: svg2 will not have the prefetch element but will clarify when resources start doanloading
<ed> i would like us to state whether resources start downloading as soon as you set the href, even if it's not appended to the document
<ed> similar to Image in html, e.g var img = new Image(); img.src = "foo"
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/rester/raster/ Succeeded: s/karl/krti/ Succeeded: s/krti/krit/ Succeeded: s/ it is rendered / the snapshotTime image must be rendered for anything in the svg spec itself, it's suggested it may be used for still images, but doesn't require it to be used by the UA/ Succeeded: s/scribe missed/the use case was a set of animated icons, whose animation was disabled, but re-enabled on user interaction like mouseover/ Succeeded: s/9no/(no/ Succeeded: s/rwesolution: /resolution: / Succeeded: s/oref/pref/ Found ScribeNick: ChrisL Inferring Scribes: ChrisL Default Present: ed, heycam, krit, Tav, ChrisL, +1.732.216.aabb Present: ed heycam krit Tav ChrisL +1.732.216.aabb Regrets: Rik Cyril Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0031.html Found Date: 19 Jan 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html People with action items: cameron chris erik[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]