RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 16 May 2012

Seen
Alex Hall, Andy Seaborne, Arnaud Le Hors, Dan Brickley, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Lee Feigenbaum, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Thomas Baker, Zhe Wu
Scribe
Peter Patel-Schneider
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon: link
  2. Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines. link
  3. to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping link
  4. Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html link
  5. Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html link
Topics
14:57:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/16-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/16-rdf-wg-irc

14:57:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:57:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:57:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

14:57:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:25 <trackbot> Date: 16 May 2012
14:57:54 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:58:01 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

14:58:57 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:58:57 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:59:00 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:59:03 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

14:59:23 <ivan> scribenick: pfps

(Scribe set to Peter Patel-Schneider)

14:59:28 <pchampin> zakim, who is on the phone?

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, who is on the phone?

14:59:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, ??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, ??P1

14:59:32 <ivan> scribe: Peter
14:59:33 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa

14:59:35 <pchampin> zakim, ??P1 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P1 is me

14:59:35 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

14:59:43 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me

14:59:43 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it

14:59:47 <davidwood> Zakim, please let me in.

David Wood: Zakim, please let me in.

14:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please let me in', davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'please let me in', davidwood

15:00:27 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

15:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aabb

15:01:13 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.598.aacc

15:01:23 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.05.16

Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: RDF Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.05.16

15:01:26 <Guus> zakim, +31 is me

Guus Schreiber: zakim, +31 is me

15:01:26 <Zakim> +Guus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus; got it

15:01:36 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is talking?

15:01:37 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:01:46 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (52%), pchampin (35%)

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (52%), pchampin (35%)

15:01:53 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.996.aadd

15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.324.aaee

15:02:15 <ericP> Zakim, aaee is me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, aaee is me

15:02:15 <Zakim> +ericP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it

15:02:35 <ivan> zakim, aadd is Arnaud

Ivan Herman: zakim, aadd is Arnaud

15:02:35 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud; got it

15:02:40 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

15:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP

15:02:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,

15:02:47 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ericP

15:02:49 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

15:02:54 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P12 is me

15:02:54 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:03:02 <Souri> zakim, aabb is me

Souripriya Das: zakim, aabb is me

15:03:02 <Zakim> +Souri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it

15:03:16 <Souri> zakim, who is here?

Souripriya Das: zakim, who is here?

15:03:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, Souri, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, Souri, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP, AndyS

15:03:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,

15:03:18 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ericP

15:03:22 <pfps> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:03:27 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.553.aaff

15:03:31 <LeeF> zakim, aaff is me

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aaff is me

15:03:31 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it

15:03:46 <LeeF> hi, guus!

Lee Feigenbaum: hi, guus!

15:03:47 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:03:57 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:03:58 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:03:59 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:03:59 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:04:01 <pfps> PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon

PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon

15:04:06 <pfps> pfps: +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

15:04:10 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:04:13 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:04:15 <PatH> PatH will be just on IRC until we get past the turtles.

Patrick Hayes: PatH will be just on IRC until we get past the turtles.

15:04:21 <pfps> RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon:

RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon:

15:04:22 <PatH> _1 by the way

Patrick Hayes: _1 by the way

15:04:31 <PatH> +1 whoops

Patrick Hayes: +1 whoops

15:04:50 <pfps> Action Items

Action Items

15:04:50 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

15:05:10 <pfps> guus: action 169 done

Guus Schreiber: ACTION-169 done

15:05:10 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

15:05:13 <danbri> zakim, ??P20 is danbri

Dan Brickley: zakim, ??P20 is danbri

15:05:13 <Zakim> +danbri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +danbri; got it

15:05:34 <gavinc> ACTION-167?

Gavin Carothers: ACTION-167?

15:05:36 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:05:40 <Zakim> +Thomas_Baker (was ??P21)

Zakim IRC Bot: +Thomas_Baker (was ??P21)

15:06:33 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aagg

15:06:40 <AlexHall> zakim, aagg is me

Alex Hall: zakim, aagg is me

15:06:40 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it

15:06:43 <gavinc> Overcome by events

Gavin Carothers: Overcome by events

15:06:49 <pfps> guus: status of action 167?

Guus Schreiber: status of ACTION-167?

15:06:58 <pfps> gavin: done!

Gavin Carothers: done!

15:07:20 <zwu2> zakim, code?

Zhe Wu: zakim, code?

15:07:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

15:07:52 <danbri> regrets for next week from me, I'll be teaching at eswc summer school

Dan Brickley: regrets for next week from me, I'll be teaching at eswc summer school

15:07:53 <pfps> david: we need a new scribe list

David Wood: we need a new scribe list

15:08:14 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aahh

15:08:26 <pfps> guus: need to update on who is attending the call

Guus Schreiber: need to update on who is attending the call

15:08:40 <pfps> ACTION david: update scribe list

ACTION david: update scribe list

15:08:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-171 - Update scribe list [on David Wood - due 2012-05-23].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-171 - Update scribe list [on David Wood - due 2012-05-23].

15:08:43 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aahh is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aahh is me

15:08:43 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it

15:09:09 <pfps> guus: next meeting is next week

Guus Schreiber: next meeting is next week

15:09:27 <pfps> Topic: Turtle LC decision

2. Turtle LC decision

15:09:38 <pfps> guus: there was some discussion on grammar rules

Guus Schreiber: there was some discussion on grammar rules

15:10:22 <gavinc> [ <p> <o> . ]

Gavin Carothers: [ <p> <o> . ]

15:10:36 <pfps> gavin: issue 19 - allow top-level blank nodes

Gavin Carothers: ISSUE-19 - allow top-level blank nodes

15:10:37 <gavinc> [ <p> <o> . ] <p> <o> .

Gavin Carothers: [ <p> <o> . ] <p> <o> .

15:11:05 <pfps> gavin: agreement from a year ago, but the change was apparently lost, now regained

Gavin Carothers: agreement from a year ago, but the change was apparently lost, now regained

15:11:20 <pfps> guus: no dissent seen, any discussion now?

Guus Schreiber: no dissent seen, any discussion now?

15:11:53 <PatH> What is their scope? Should make this very clear.

Patrick Hayes: What is their scope? Should make this very clear.

15:12:18 <PatH> Im guessing the document.

Patrick Hayes: Im guessing the document.

15:12:22 <pfps> gavin: this was resolved quite some time ago, this discussion is just a reminder

Gavin Carothers: this was resolved quite some time ago, this discussion is just a reminder

15:12:27 <PatH> OK.

Patrick Hayes: OK.

15:12:47 <pfps> pfps: the scope is just like any other blank node, the graph

Peter Patel-Schneider: the scope is just like any other blank node, the graph

15:13:05 <gavinc> @prefix <example>

Gavin Carothers: @prefix <example>

15:13:07 <gavinc> @prefix <example> .

Gavin Carothers: @prefix <example> .

15:13:09 <pfps> gavin: null prefix issue

Gavin Carothers: null prefix issue

15:13:21 <gavinc> <bob> knows <alice>

Gavin Carothers: <bob> knows <alice>

15:13:27 <gavinc> exampleknows

Gavin Carothers: exampleknows

15:13:59 <pfps> gavin: adding bare words to Turtle is a big change

Gavin Carothers: adding bare words to Turtle is a big change

15:14:00 <LeeF> I'm against barewords in turtle. cygri said he was too

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm against barewords in turtle. cygri said he was too

15:14:05 <AlexHall> if i say "prefix foo: <bar>." -- is the prefix "foo" or "foo:"? (i.e. is the colon part of the prefix?)

Alex Hall: if i say "prefix foo: <bar>." -- is the prefix "foo" or "foo:"? (i.e. is the colon part of the prefix?)

15:14:16 <Souri> me too (against that is)

Souripriya Das: me too (against that is)

15:14:22 <ericP> i'd say that the key is the empty string instead of NULL

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'd say that the key is the empty string instead of NULL

15:14:43 <gavinc> @vocab <asdf> .

Gavin Carothers: @vocab <asdf> .

15:14:46 <pfps> gavin: if this happens, then it should be done in some other way, for example, with a different keyword

Gavin Carothers: if this happens, then it should be done in some other way, for example, with a different keyword

15:14:46 <sandro> gavinc: Maybe use @vocab for this kind of thing

Gavin Carothers: Maybe use @vocab for this kind of thing [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:15:02 <pfps> gavin: one reason to do this is to be more like schema.org

Gavin Carothers: one reason to do this is to be more like schema.org

15:15:24 <pfps> guus:  most people agree with Gavin

Guus Schreiber: most people agree with Gavin

15:15:53 <pfps> sandro: I was disagreeing, but no longer, and @vocab would be the way to go, if we do go

Sandro Hawke: I was disagreeing, but no longer, and @vocab would be the way to go, if we do go

15:16:04 <sandro> (or at least seems reasonable.)

Sandro Hawke: (or at least seems reasonable.)

15:16:19 <pfps> gavin: no problem with @vocab as an extension

Gavin Carothers: no problem with @vocab as an extension

15:16:32 <pfps> gavin: nothing in document (yet)

Gavin Carothers: nothing in document (yet)

15:16:47 <pfps> david: how does schema.org fit in?

David Wood: how does schema.org fit in?

15:17:08 <danbri> q+ re microdata/rdfa

Dan Brickley: q+ re microdata/rdfa

15:17:12 <pfps> gavin: schema.org (actually microdata) treat bare words as attaching to some vocabulary

Gavin Carothers: schema.org (actually microdata) treat bare words as attaching to some vocabulary

15:17:25 <pfps> gavin: discussion with schema.org might result in some change

Gavin Carothers: discussion with schema.org might result in some change

15:17:34 <sandro> q+ to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road"

Sandro Hawke: q+ to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road"

15:17:43 <pfps> dan: schema.org is the only use of microdata

Dan Brickley: schema.org is the only use of microdata

15:17:55 <pfps> dan: rdfa 1.1 light is very close to schema.org

Dan Brickley: rdfa 1.1 light is very close to schema.org

15:18:21 <pfps> dan: schema.org may accept rdfa 1.1 light, which may reduce use of microdata

Dan Brickley: schema.org may accept rdfa 1.1 light, which may reduce use of microdata

15:18:36 <sandro> ack danbri

Sandro Hawke: ack danbri

15:18:36 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to discuss microdata/rdfa

Zakim IRC Bot: danbri, you wanted to discuss microdata/rdfa

15:18:38 <danbri> yup, just don't worry too heavily about microdata

Dan Brickley: yup, just don't worry too heavily about microdata

15:18:41 <pfps> guus:  it looks as if gavin's decision is fine

Guus Schreiber: it looks as if gavin's decision is fine

15:18:48 <danbri> (it is what it is; i don't expect it to change a great deal)

Dan Brickley: (it is what it is; i don't expect it to change a great deal)

15:19:21 <pfps> sandro: Turtle isn't going to have extensions, so talk about that won't do

Sandro Hawke: Turtle isn't going to have extensions, so talk about that won't do

15:19:45 <pfps> gavin: But there is not yet an error conformance for Turtle

Gavin Carothers: But there is not yet an error conformance for Turtle

15:19:54 <sandro> (me said that much more softly than it was transcribed!)

Sandro Hawke: (me said that much more softly than it was transcribed!)

15:20:48 <pfps> gavin: little support for BASE and PREFIX with out @

Gavin Carothers: little support for BASE and PREFIX with out @

15:21:13 <pfps> gavin: to align with SPARQL we would have to allow any-case

Gavin Carothers: to align with SPARQL we would have to allow any-case

15:21:25 <AndyS> And 'a'

Andy Seaborne: And 'a'

15:21:33 <pfps> gavin: right now @base has to be all lower case

Gavin Carothers: right now @base has to be all lower case

15:21:47 <gavinc> true and false are also lower case

Gavin Carothers: true and false are also lower case

15:21:49 <sandro> gavin: In turtle, @prefix is lowercase

Gavin Carothers: In turtle, @prefix is lowercase [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:21:57 <pfps> david: WG decided to align Turtle and SPARQL where possible

David Wood: WG decided to align Turtle and SPARQL where possible

15:22:43 <pfps> Sandro: but that was about aligning graph parts, so this is only in the spirit of the decision

Sandro Hawke: but that was about aligning graph parts, so this is only in the spirit of the decision

15:22:52 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

15:23:27 <pfps> guus: I would like this to be a feature at risk, but there has to be a feature to remove if so

Guus Schreiber: I would like this to be a feature at risk, but there has to be a feature to remove if so

15:23:36 <Zakim> +zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2

15:23:47 <pfps> gavin: do we need a new LC for conformance anyway?

Gavin Carothers: do we need a new LC for conformance anyway?

15:24:00 <pfps> ivan: then we can't do last call

Ivan Herman: then we can't do last call

15:24:07 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-conformance

Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-conformance

15:24:14 <PatH> pfps, say 'naked words'

Patrick Hayes: pfps, say 'naked words'

15:24:27 <pfps> sandro: procedurally possible, but not a good idea

Sandro Hawke: procedurally possible, but not a good idea

15:24:42 <pfps> gavin: no test suite

Gavin Carothers: no test suite

15:24:56 <pfps> sandro: don't need a test suite

Sandro Hawke: don't need a test suite

15:25:01 <sandro> sandro: it's not appropriate to go to LC planning on a second LC2

Sandro Hawke: it's not appropriate to go to LC planning on a second LC2 [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:25:56 <pfps> gavin: section 9 includes the test suite by reference, so I thought that that was part of the document

Gavin Carothers: section 9 includes the test suite by reference, so I thought that that was part of the document

15:26:29 <pfps> sandro: normally conformance is the design, not the test suit

Sandro Hawke: normally conformance is the design, not the test suit

15:26:41 <pfps> sandro: passing the test suite does not pass conformance

Sandro Hawke: passing the test suite does not pass conformance

15:27:10 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#conformance SPARQL Conformance

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#conformance SPARQL Conformance

15:27:11 <Arnaud> well, it may

Arnaud Le Hors: well, it may

15:27:29 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy?

15:27:40 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), Sandro (9%), ericP (78%)

Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), Sandro (9%), ericP (78%)

15:28:00 <pfps> eric: SPARQL has a very short conformance section

Eric Prud'hommeaux: SPARQL has a very short conformance section

15:28:08 <pfps> sandro: which version?

Sandro Hawke: which version?

15:28:20 <pfps> eric: see above

Eric Prud'hommeaux: see above

15:28:39 <pfps> guus: so we should put something like that in the document

Guus Schreiber: so we should put something like that in the document

15:28:56 <pfps> eric: I can rewrite the conformance section

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I can rewrite the conformance section

15:29:56 <pfps> sandro: turtle test suite is in the wrong place - it needs to be a different directory

Sandro Hawke: turtle test suite is in the wrong place - it needs to be a different directory

15:30:08 <ivan> +1 to sandro

Ivan Herman: +1 to sandro

15:30:31 <pfps> eric: the test suite is an accompanying document

Eric Prud'hommeaux: the test suite is an accompanying document

15:31:06 <pfps> sandro: RDF 2004 has a TR test suite, but that isn't current practice

Sandro Hawke: RDF 2004 has a TR test suite, but that isn't current practice

15:31:44 <pfps> eric: what about calling it a set of examples?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: what about calling it a set of examples?

15:32:16 <pfps> sandro: examples linking to files is good, and this can be in TR space

Sandro Hawke: examples linking to files is good, and this can be in TR space

15:32:52 <sandro> Yes, Gavin, I see http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ ....      :-(

Sandro Hawke: Yes, Gavin, I see http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ .... :-(

15:33:07 <pfps> eric: test suites are finallized fairly early

Eric Prud'hommeaux: test suites are finallized fairly early

15:33:38 <pfps> ivan: no, they can even grow after REC, just need something frozen for process

Ivan Herman: no, they can even grow after REC, just need something frozen for process

15:33:57 <pfps> guus:  can we defer this until later?

Guus Schreiber: can we defer this until later?

15:34:01 <ericP> sure, we'll be about to go to LC for every

Eric Prud'hommeaux: sure, we'll be about to go to LC for every

15:34:04 <ericP> ever

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ever

15:34:28 <pfps> sandro: LC doesn't need all the details of the test suite

Sandro Hawke: LC doesn't need all the details of the test suite

15:34:47 <pfps> gavin: what to do about BASE and PREFIX?

Gavin Carothers: what to do about BASE and PREFIX?

15:35:07 <pfps> guus: feature at risk, to obviate the need for a second last call

Guus Schreiber: feature at risk, to obviate the need for a second last call

15:35:16 <AndyS> Exactly as SPARQL?

Andy Seaborne: Exactly as SPARQL?

15:35:33 <pfps> guus: gavin, is this OK by you

Guus Schreiber: gavin, is this OK by you

15:36:04 <pfps> gavin: it is partly a matter of readability - doesn't matter for SPARQL

Gavin Carothers: it is partly a matter of readability - doesn't matter for SPARQL

15:36:23 <pfps> andy: SPARQL update alllows redefining prefixes

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL update alllows redefining prefixes

15:36:38 <pfps> gavin: can you see the declarations in long documents?

Gavin Carothers: can you see the declarations in long documents?

15:37:30 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.

STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.

15:37:48 <pfps> pfps: no period?

Peter Patel-Schneider: no period?

15:38:02 <pfps> andy: SPARQL has no . at end of line

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL has no . at end of line

15:38:14 <gavinc> -0.999

Gavin Carothers: -0.999

15:38:26 <pfps> david: I want consistency

David Wood: I want consistency

15:39:05 <pfps> andy: either SPARQL or Turtle

Andy Seaborne: either SPARQL or Turtle

15:39:19 <pfps> david: so no @ then no . ??

David Wood: so no @ then no . ??

15:39:35 <pfps> sandro: that's as per the straw poll

Sandro Hawke: that's as per the straw poll

15:39:51 <gavinc> pReFiX prefix <a> PrEfIx prefix2: <b> @prefix :prefix3 <c> .

Gavin Carothers: pReFiX prefix <a> PrEfIx prefix2: <b> @prefix :prefix3 <c> .

15:40:06 <pfps> guus: that's ugly

Guus Schreiber: that's ugly

15:40:18 <sandro> david: This would not break any old turtle.

David Wood: This would not break any old turtle. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:41:10 <ericP> obfuscated turtle contest?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: obfuscated turtle contest?

15:41:16 <sandro> So you can have ONE  text you cut/paste in SPARQL *and* TURTLE.

Sandro Hawke: So you can have ONE text you cut/paste in SPARQL *and* TURTLE.

15:41:40 <pfps> david: only useful for compatability, otherwise useless

David Wood: only useful for compatability, otherwise useless

15:42:10 <pfps> gavin: but SPARQL doesn't allow prefixes throughout, which produces a subtle issue

Gavin Carothers: but SPARQL doesn't allow prefixes throughout, which produces a subtle issue

15:43:00 <pfps> sandro: prefixes in middle is bad practice, but this allows one prefix stuff for both SPARQL and Turtle

Sandro Hawke: prefixes in middle is bad practice, but this allows one prefix stuff for both SPARQL and Turtle

15:43:20 <pfps> guus: time for strawpoll

Guus Schreiber: time for strawpoll

15:43:23 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.

STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.

15:43:27 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:43:29 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:43:38 <MacTed> +0

Ted Thibodeau: +0

15:43:44 <pfps> -0, as I'll be against it later

-0, as I'll be against it later

15:43:44 <gavinc> -0.7 ... I'm a bit more convinced

Gavin Carothers: -0.7 ... I'm a bit more convinced

15:43:48 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:43:54 <AndyS> +0.2

Andy Seaborne: +0.2

15:43:54 <davidwood> +0

David Wood: +0

15:43:57 <danbri> +0

Dan Brickley: +0

15:44:00 <Souri> -0 (refrain)

Souripriya Das: -0 (refrain)

15:44:02 <Arnaud> 0

Arnaud Le Hors: 0

15:44:03 <pchampin> +0

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +0

15:44:05 <tbaker> 0

Thomas Baker: 0

15:44:07 <SteveH> 0

Steve Harris: 0

15:44:17 <zwu2> +0

Zhe Wu: +0

15:44:27 <AlexHall> +0

Alex Hall: +0

15:44:35 <pfps> guus: even so, let's do a feature at risk, because it can be removed later

Guus Schreiber: even so, let's do a feature at risk, because it can be removed later

15:44:58 <pfps> guus:  OK, gavin?

Guus Schreiber: OK, gavin?

15:45:03 <pfps> gavin:  ok, ok, grumble, grumble

Gavin Carothers: ok, ok, grumble, grumble

15:45:24 <pfps> gavin: but I'll live

Gavin Carothers: but I'll live

15:45:26 <sandro> RESOLVED: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.

RESOLVED: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.

15:45:44 <pfps> guus: grammar rule issues?

Guus Schreiber: grammar rule issues?

15:45:53 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-grammar-grammar

Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-grammar-grammar

15:46:28 <pfps> gavin: turtle grammar should be updated

Gavin Carothers: turtle grammar should be updated

15:46:55 <pfps> gavin: turtle grammar has been updated to reflect discussions

Gavin Carothers: turtle grammar has been updated to reflect discussions

15:47:04 <pfps> eric: what about yakker work

Eric Prud'hommeaux: what about yakker work

15:47:34 <pfps> gavin: turtle isn't as complex as sparql, so it doesn't need all that

Gavin Carothers: turtle isn't as complex as sparql, so it doesn't need all that

15:47:40 <pfps> eric: ok

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ok

15:48:08 <pfps> guus: let's delay for a week and schedule a formal decision next week

Guus Schreiber: let's delay for a week and schedule a formal decision next week

15:48:13 <pfps> guus: OK?

Guus Schreiber: OK?

15:48:16 <sandro> q+ to make little grammar comment

Sandro Hawke: q+ to make little grammar comment

15:48:30 <AndyS> Do remove the [*s] numbering style - it will change :-(

Andy Seaborne: Do remove the [*s] numbering style - it will change :-(

15:48:46 <pfps> gavin: SPARQL form prefixes only without the dot?

Gavin Carothers: SPARQL form prefixes only without the dot?

15:48:56 <pfps> guus: yes, that was the proposal

Guus Schreiber: yes, that was the proposal

15:49:23 <pfps> gavin: numbering will go

Gavin Carothers: numbering will go

15:50:05 <pfps> gavin: hyperlinks might be possible, linking to the name of the production

Gavin Carothers: hyperlinks might be possible, linking to the name of the production

15:50:30 <pfps> andy: SPARQL isn't at LC, so there is a slight risk

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL isn't at LC, so there is a slight risk

15:51:13 <pfps> guus: thanks to the editors

Guus Schreiber: thanks to the editors

15:51:22 <pfps> Topic: RDF Concepts WD

3. RDF Concepts WD

15:51:44 <pfps> guus: richard is not here, but there is a list to look at

Guus Schreiber: richard is not here, but there is a list to look at

15:52:02 <pfps> guus: pending review issues

Guus Schreiber: pending review issues

15:52:04 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html Richard's mail

Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html Richard's mail

15:52:31 <pfps> guus:  issue-66 XSD datatype maps

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-66 XSD datatype maps

15:52:38 <ivan> Issue-66?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-66?

15:52:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- pending review

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- pending review

15:52:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/66

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/66

15:52:59 <pfps> guus: no further discussion, so we will close this one

Guus Schreiber: no further discussion, so we will close this one

15:53:14 <ivan> ISSUE-86?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-86?

15:53:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- pending review

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-86 -- Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- pending review

15:53:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/86

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/86

15:53:38 <pfps> guus: issue-86, divergent definitions of graph equivalence

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-86, divergent definitions of graph equivalence

15:53:57 <pfps> guus: no discussion, so this one is closed as well

Guus Schreiber: no discussion, so this one is closed as well

15:54:01 <ivan> ISSUE-13?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-13?

15:54:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- pending review

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- pending review

15:54:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/13

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/13

15:54:25 <pfps> guus: issue-13, xml literal, had some discussion

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-13, xml literal, had some discussion

15:55:22 <pfps> guus: ivan had some comments

Guus Schreiber: ivan had some comments

15:55:41 <pfps> ivan: there was a long discussion

Ivan Herman: there was a long discussion

15:55:58 <pfps> ivan: the end was a clean proposal that is now in Concepts

Ivan Herman: the end was a clean proposal that is now in Concepts

15:56:29 <pfps> ivan: this appeared to be acceptable to the WG

Ivan Herman: this appeared to be acceptable to the WG

15:56:37 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:56:41 <pfps> guus: no discussion, so this issue will be closed

Guus Schreiber: no discussion, so this issue will be closed

15:56:48 <PatH> zakim, mute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me

15:56:49 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted

15:57:16 <ivan> ISSUE-63?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-63?

15:57:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-63 -- Introduce an HTML5 datatype -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-63 -- Introduce an HTML5 datatype -- open

15:57:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/63

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/63

15:57:28 <pfps> guus: ISSUE-63, HTML datatype

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-63, HTML datatype

15:57:36 <gavinc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html

Gavin Carothers: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html

15:57:50 <sandro> ericP, gavinc  -- isn't this wrong?    BLANK_NODE_LABEL		::= 	'_:' PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ((PN_CHARS | '.')* PN_CHARS)?              There should be parens around PN_CHARS_U | [0-9].

Sandro Hawke: ericP, gavinc -- isn't this wrong? BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ((PN_CHARS | '.')* PN_CHARS)? There should be parens around PN_CHARS_U | [0-9].

15:58:19 <pfps> ivan: canonicalization ....

Ivan Herman: canonicalization ....

15:58:53 <pfps> ivan: should there be equality on the value space? yes

Ivan Herman: should there be equality on the value space? yes

15:59:11 <pfps> ivan: internationalization group is interested here

Ivan Herman: internationalization group is interested here

15:59:24 <gavinc> sandro, sigh, yess... [135s] BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ((PN_CHARS|'.')* PN_CHARS)? :(

Gavin Carothers: sandro, sigh, yess... [135s] BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ((PN_CHARS|'.')* PN_CHARS)? :(

15:59:41 <gavinc> see https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/scripts/bnf2html

Gavin Carothers: see https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/scripts/bnf2html

15:59:46 <pfps> ivan: lexical equality doesn't survive beautification

Ivan Herman: lexical equality doesn't survive beautification

16:00:16 <pfps> ivan: my view is that we accept HTML datatypes as optional

Ivan Herman: my view is that we accept HTML datatypes as optional

16:00:54 <Guus> PROPSED to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html

Guus Schreiber: PROPSED to accept the resolution to ISSUE-63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html

16:01:15 <ivan> PROPOSED:  to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html

PROPOSED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE-63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html

16:01:22 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:01:23 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:01:24 <pfps> guus: discussion?

Guus Schreiber: discussion?

16:01:32 <pfps> +0

+0

16:01:39 <gavinc> +1 without canonical mapping

Gavin Carothers: +1 without canonical mapping

16:01:48 <tbaker> 0

Thomas Baker: 0

16:02:21 <ivan> PROPOSED:  to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping

PROPOSED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE-63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping

16:02:28 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:02:29 <pfps> +0

+0

16:02:31 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:02:33 <zwu2> +0

Zhe Wu: +0

16:02:36 <MacTed> +0

Ted Thibodeau: +0

16:02:38 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:02:39 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:02:40 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

16:02:41 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:02:46 <tbaker> +0

Thomas Baker: +0

16:02:50 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:02:55 <ivan> RESOLVED:  to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping

RESOLVED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE-63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping

16:03:17 <pfps> ivan: someone should respond to the I14N WG

Ivan Herman: someone should respond to the I14N WG

16:03:24 <Arnaud> belated +1 :)

Arnaud Le Hors: belated +1 :)

16:03:36 <pfps> ACTION ivan: tell I14N WG about HTML 5 resolution

ACTION ivan: tell I14N WG about HTML 5 resolution

16:03:36 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan

16:03:36 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)

Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)

16:03:46 <Souri> Gavin, in N-Triple originally (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntrip_grammar), EBNF for blank node label was:    name 	::= 	[A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9]*

Souripriya Das: Gavin, in N-Triple originally (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntrip_grammar), EBNF for blank node label was: name ::= [A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9]*

16:04:54 <gavinc> Souri, yes, blank nodes in N-Triples are not exactly the same as in Test Cases

Gavin Carothers: Souri, yes, blank nodes in N-Triples are not exactly the same as in Test Cases

16:05:38 <PatH> track me if you can

Patrick Hayes: track me if you can

16:05:45 <Souri> So, the first character had to be Alpha earlier, but we are now going to allow AlphaNumeric as the first character -- just confirming.

Souripriya Das: So, the first character had to be Alpha earlier, but we are now going to allow AlphaNumeric as the first character -- just confirming.

16:06:06 <pfps> guus: issue 87

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-87

16:06:14 <gavinc> Souri, correct.

Gavin Carothers: Souri, correct.

16:06:21 <sandro> gavin, have you seen http://railroad.my28msec.com/rr/ui    (I discovered it yesterday -- it makes railroad diagrams in SVG from BNF.)

Sandro Hawke: gavin, have you seen http://railroad.my28msec.com/rr/ui (I discovered it yesterday -- it makes railroad diagrams in SVG from BNF.)

16:06:27 <pfps> guus: issue 87 check datatypes

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-87 check datatypes

16:06:44 <PatH> +q

Patrick Hayes: +q

16:06:46 <davidwood> Ivan's action is at https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/172

David Wood: Ivan's action is at https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/172

16:06:51 <PatH> zakim, unmute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, unmute me

16:06:51 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should no longer be muted

16:06:59 <sandro> ack sandro

Sandro Hawke: ack sandro

16:06:59 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road" and to make little grammar comment

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road" and to make little grammar comment

16:07:00 <Guus> ack sandro

Guus Schreiber: ack sandro

16:07:22 <pfps> path: comment back from OWL WG?

Patrick Hayes: comment back from OWL WG?

16:07:40 <PatH> zakim, mute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me

16:07:40 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted

16:07:43 <pfps> pfps: no substantive comment so we can proceed

Peter Patel-Schneider: no substantive comment so we can proceed

16:08:54 <pfps> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

16:09:01 <pfps> +1

+1

16:09:07 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:09:15 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:09:16 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:09:18 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:09:18 <danbri> +1

Dan Brickley: +1

16:09:18 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:09:26 <pfps> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

16:09:31 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

16:09:52 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:10:01 <pfps> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

16:10:22 <pfps> +0

+0

16:10:31 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:10:33 <AlexHall> +1

Alex Hall: +1

16:10:37 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

16:10:37 <gavinc> +1 aligns with <time> model in HTML5 as well

Gavin Carothers: +1 aligns with <time> model in HTML5 as well

16:10:38 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:10:39 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:10:41 <zwu2> 0

Zhe Wu: 0

16:10:54 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:10:59 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:11:09 <pfps> RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html

16:11:27 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:11:41 <PatH> +0 is no objection, 0 is really dont care, -0 is no formal objection but yuck.

Patrick Hayes: +0 is no objection, 0 is really dont care, -0 is no formal objection but yuck.

16:11:43 <davidwood> Apache voting process (definition of numbers): http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

David Wood: Apache voting process (definition of numbers): http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

16:11:44 <pfps> guus: leave formal decision on WD for next week

Guus Schreiber: leave formal decision on WD for next week

16:11:57 <tbaker> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html +0: "I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this'

Thomas Baker: http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html +0: "I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this'

16:12:05 <pfps> guus: 4 minutes left

Guus Schreiber: 4 minutes left

16:12:10 <pfps> Topic: Named Graphs

4. Named Graphs

16:12:35 <sandro> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-spaces/index.html#

Sandro Hawke: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-spaces/index.html#

16:12:20 <pfps> what about "space" vs "data space"?

what about "space" vs "data space"?

16:12:50 <pfps> guus: please look at RDF spaces document from Sandro and determine where you stand

Guus Schreiber: please look at RDF spaces document from Sandro and determine where you stand

16:13:15 <PatH> I owe Sandro some semantics input.

Patrick Hayes: I owe Sandro some semantics input.

16:13:16 <AndyS> I would like to see the key points extracted to be clear what's most important and what's editorial/unfinished.

Andy Seaborne: I would like to see the key points extracted to be clear what's most important and what's editorial/unfinished.

16:13:30 <sandro> I think those are clearly marked in the draft.....

Sandro Hawke: I think those are clearly marked in the draft.....

16:14:04 <pfps> guus: some of these issues will be discussed next week

Guus Schreiber: some of these issues will be discussed next week

16:14:06 <AndyS> sandro - no - ones keep coming up that aren't highlighted.

Andy Seaborne: sandro - no - ones keep coming up that aren't highlighted.

16:14:34 <sandro> like what....?

Sandro Hawke: like what....?

16:14:35 <pfps> sandro: I edited agenda to include more context

Sandro Hawke: I edited agenda to include more context

16:14:37 <PatH> peter needs some tech input.

Patrick Hayes: peter needs some tech input.

16:14:49 <pfps> guus: five more minutes?

Guus Schreiber: five more minutes?

16:15:00 <AndyS> fine

Andy Seaborne: fine

16:15:05 <gavinc> +1 to extending for 5 minutes a conversation that has been going on for more than 8 years ;)

Gavin Carothers: +1 to extending for 5 minutes a conversation that has been going on for more than 8 years ;)

16:15:07 <PatH> +5

Patrick Hayes: +5

16:15:26 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-5 ("Should we define Graph Literal datatypes?"), saying No, we should not.

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-5 ("Should we define Graph Literal datatypes?"), saying No, we should not.

16:15:32 <pfps> guus: let's look at the first three proposals

Guus Schreiber: let's look at the first three proposals

16:15:53 <gavinc> +1 No graph literals

Gavin Carothers: +1 No graph literals

16:16:01 <pfps> q+

q+

16:16:05 <sandro> +0 given practical issues, yeah, I guess these are not our best option.

Sandro Hawke: +0 given practical issues, yeah, I guess these are not our best option.

16:16:14 <PatH> q-

Patrick Hayes: q-

16:16:16 <Souri> +1 No Graph Literals

Souripriya Das: +1 No Graph Literals

16:16:58 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:16:58 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:17:01 <danbri> (I didn't think agendas bound us that strongly)

Dan Brickley: (I didn't think agendas bound us that strongly)

16:17:03 <gavinc> -1 to more freaking strawpolls

Gavin Carothers: -1 to more freaking strawpolls

16:17:19 <pfps> guus: issue 5 graph literals - there have been no proposals for this

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-5 graph literals - there have been no proposals for this

16:17:22 <Arnaud> why is it a problem?

Arnaud Le Hors: why is it a problem?

16:17:30 <pfps> pfps: I don't remember that resolving was on the agenda

Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't remember that resolving was on the agenda

16:17:33 <gavinc> We've had strawpolls on these issues at least 3 times in the past

Gavin Carothers: We've had strawpolls on these issues at least 3 times in the past

16:17:57 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:17:58 <LeeF> I don't understand at all how you can read the agenda and not understand that we'd be trying to resolve these proposals.

Lee Feigenbaum: I don't understand at all how you can read the agenda and not understand that we'd be trying to resolve these proposals.

16:18:12 <pfps> guus: agenda said straw polls, and maybe resolution

Guus Schreiber: agenda said straw polls, and maybe resolution

16:18:43 <pfps> guus: as there was some ambiguity we should defer to next week

Guus Schreiber: as there was some ambiguity we should defer to next week

16:18:49 <zwu2> Got to go. Bye

Zhe Wu: Got to go. Bye

16:18:54 <PatH> Anyone who grew up with cattle knows that too much straw has only one inevitable product.

Patrick Hayes: Anyone who grew up with cattle knows that too much straw has only one inevitable product.

16:18:59 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

16:19:00 <Zakim> +??P59

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P59

16:19:04 <pfps> guus: adjourn, and next week will be about named graphs

Guus Schreiber: adjourn, and next week will be about named graphs

16:19:05 <Zakim> -Thomas_Baker

Zakim IRC Bot: -Thomas_Baker

16:19:07 <Zakim> -danbri

Zakim IRC Bot: -danbri

16:19:07 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

16:19:08 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:19:08 <AndyS> zakim, ??P59 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P59 is me

16:19:08 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

16:19:10 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

16:19:14 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

16:19:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute AndyS

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute AndyS

16:19:16 <Zakim> -AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall

16:19:16 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS should now be muted

16:19:17 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

16:19:23 <AlexHall> RRSAgent, make records public

Alex Hall: RRSAgent, make records public

16:19:34 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

16:19:36 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:19:42 <AlexHall> pfps, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes - directions at top

Alex Hall: pfps, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes - directions at top

16:20:15 <AndyS> For the record ... "not difficult"

Andy Seaborne: For the record ... "not difficult"

16:20:21 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:20:23 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

16:20:25 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:20:31 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

16:20:33 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:20:40 <Zakim> -Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus

16:20:43 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

16:20:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

16:20:44 <Zakim> Attendees were pfps, Ivan, +1.707.861.aaaa, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, Guus, Sandro, +1.408.996.aadd, +1.617.324.aaee, ericP, Arnaud, AndyS,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pfps, Ivan, +1.707.861.aaaa, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, Guus, Sandro, +1.408.996.aadd, +1.617.324.aaee, ericP, Arnaud, AndyS,

16:20:44 <Zakim> ... Souri, +1.617.553.aaff, LeeF, MacTed, danbri, Thomas_Baker, +1.443.212.aagg, AlexHall, zwu2, PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Souri, +1.617.553.aaff, LeeF, MacTed, danbri, Thomas_Baker, +1.443.212.aagg, AlexHall, zwu2, PatH

16:20:49 <MacTed> (sorry for muting you, Andy... the waterfall noise cuts everyone else out)

Ted Thibodeau: (sorry for muting you, Andy... the waterfall noise cuts everyone else out)

16:21:21 <AndyS> MacTex - np - skype dropped out and that is a sign of network bad quality

Andy Seaborne: MacTex - np - skype dropped out and that is a sign of network bad quality

16:22:11 <PatH> Theorem. For any committee and any time-period, there exists an agenda item for which the committee will spend that time=period trying to decide what to do, without actually doing anything about that agenda item. (The WG Fixpoint Theorem.)

Patrick Hayes: Theorem. For any committee and any time-period, there exists an agenda item for which the committee will spend that time=period trying to decide what to do, without actually doing anything about that agenda item. (The WG Fixpoint Theorem.)



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This revision (#1) generated 2012-05-16 16:39:43 UTC by 'ppatelsc', comments: 'Initial version from scribe, with edits'