Chatlog 2012-05-16

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14:57:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:20 <RRSAgent> logging to
14:57:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:57:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:25 <trackbot> Date: 16 May 2012
14:57:54 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:01 <Zakim> +pfps
14:58:57 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:58:57 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:59:00 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:59:03 <Zakim> +??P1
14:59:19 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
14:59:23 <ivan> scribenick: pfps
14:59:28 <pchampin> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, ??P1
14:59:32 <ivan> scribe: Peter
14:59:33 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
14:59:35 <pchampin> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:59:35 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
14:59:43 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:43 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
14:59:47 <davidwood> Zakim, please let me in.
14:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please let me in', davidwood
15:00:27 <Zakim> +davidwood
15:00:39 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
15:00:58 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:09 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:13 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc
15:01:23 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF Agenda
15:01:26 <Guus> zakim, +31 is me
15:01:26 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
15:01:28 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:36 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking?
15:01:37 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:01:46 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (52%), pchampin (35%)
15:01:53 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aadd
15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaee
15:02:15 <ericP> Zakim, aaee is me
15:02:15 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
15:02:35 <ivan> zakim, aadd is Arnaud
15:02:35 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it
15:02:40 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP
15:02:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,
15:02:47 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP
15:02:49 <Zakim> +??P12
15:02:54 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me
15:02:54 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:03:02 <Souri> zakim, aabb is me
15:03:02 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
15:03:16 <Souri> zakim, who is here?
15:03:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, Souri, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP, AndyS
15:03:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,
15:03:18 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP
15:03:22 <pfps> Topic: Admin
15:03:27 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aaff
15:03:31 <LeeF> zakim, aaff is me
15:03:31 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
15:03:46 <LeeF> hi, guus!
15:03:47 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:03:57 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:58 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:03:59 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:03:59 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:04:01 <pfps> PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon
15:04:06 <pfps> pfps: +1
15:04:10 <ivan> +1
15:04:13 <pchampin> +1
15:04:15 <PatH> PatH will be just on IRC until we get past the turtles.
15:04:21 <pfps> RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon: 
15:04:22 <PatH> _1 by the way
15:04:31 <PatH> +1 whoops
15:04:50 <pfps> Action Items
15:04:50 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
15:05:02 <tbaker> tbaker has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:10 <pfps> guus: action 169 done
15:05:10 <Zakim> +??P20
15:05:13 <danbri> zakim, ??P20 is danbri
15:05:13 <Zakim> +danbri; got it
15:05:27 <ivan> ivan has left #rdf-wg
15:05:34 <gavinc> ACTION-167? 
15:05:36 <Zakim> +??P21
15:05:40 <Zakim> +Thomas_Baker (was ??P21)
15:05:43 <ivan> ivan has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:43 <ivan> ivan has left #rdf-wg
15:05:52 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:06:23 <ivan> ivan has joined #rdf-wg
15:06:33 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aagg
15:06:40 <AlexHall> zakim, aagg is me
15:06:40 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
15:06:43 <gavinc> Overcome by events
15:06:49 <pfps> guus: status of action 167?
15:06:58 <pfps> gavin: done!
15:07:13 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:07:20 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:07:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, zwu2
15:07:52 <danbri> regrets for next week from me, I'll be teaching at eswc summer school
15:07:53 <pfps> david: we need a new scribe list
15:08:14 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aahh
15:08:26 <pfps> guus: need to update on who is attending the call
15:08:40 <pfps> ACTION david: update scribe list
15:08:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-171 - Update scribe list [on David Wood - due 2012-05-23].
15:08:43 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aahh is me
15:08:43 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
15:09:09 <pfps> guus: next meeting is next week
15:09:27 <pfps> Topic: Turtle LC decision
15:09:38 <pfps> guus: there was some discussion on grammar rules
15:10:22 <gavinc> [ <p> <o> . ]
15:10:36 <pfps> gavin: issue 19 - allow top-level blank nodes
15:10:37 <gavinc> [ <p> <o> . ] <p> <o> .
15:11:05 <pfps> gavin: agreement from a year ago, but the change was apparently lost, now regained
15:11:20 <pfps> guus: no dissent seen, any discussion now?
15:11:53 <PatH> What is their scope? Should make this very clear.
15:12:18 <PatH> Im guessing the document.
15:12:22 <pfps> gavin: this was resolved quite some time ago, this discussion is just a reminder
15:12:27 <PatH> OK.
15:12:47 <pfps> pfps: the scope is just like any other blank node, the graph
15:13:05 <gavinc> @prefix <example>
15:13:07 <gavinc> @prefix <example> .
15:13:09 <pfps> gavin: null prefix issue
15:13:21 <gavinc> <bob> knows <alice>
15:13:27 <gavinc> exampleknows
15:13:59 <pfps> gavin: adding bare words to Turtle is a big change
15:14:00 <LeeF> I'm against barewords in turtle. cygri said he was too
15:14:05 <AlexHall> if i say "prefix foo: <bar>." -- is the prefix "foo" or "foo:"? (i.e. is the colon part of the prefix?)
15:14:16 <Souri> me too (against that is)
15:14:22 <ericP> i'd say that the key is the empty string instead of NULL
15:14:43 <gavinc> @vocab <asdf> .
15:14:46 <pfps> gavin: if this happens, then it should be done in some other way, for example, with a different keyword
15:14:46 <sandro> gavinc: Maybe use @vocab for this kind of thing
15:15:02 <pfps> gavin: one reason to do this is to be more like
15:15:24 <pfps> guus:  most people agree with Gavin
15:15:53 <pfps> sandro: I was disagreeing, but no longer, and @vocab would be the way to go, if we do go
15:16:04 <sandro> (or at least seems reasonable.)
15:16:19 <pfps> gavin: no problem with @vocab as an extension
15:16:32 <pfps> gavin: nothing in document (yet)
15:16:47 <pfps> david: how does fit in?
15:17:08 <danbri> q+ re microdata/rdfa
15:17:12 <pfps> gavin: (actually microdata) treat bare words as attaching to some vocabulary
15:17:25 <pfps> gavin: discussion with might result in some change
15:17:34 <sandro> q+ to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road"
15:17:43 <pfps> dan: is the only use of microdata
15:17:55 <pfps> dan: rdfa 1.1 light is very close to
15:18:21 <pfps> dan: may accept rdfa 1.1 light, which may reduce use of microdata
15:18:36 <sandro> ack danbri 
15:18:36 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to discuss microdata/rdfa
15:18:38 <danbri> yup, just don't worry too heavily about microdata
15:18:41 <pfps> guus:  it looks as if gavin's decision is fine
15:18:48 <danbri> (it is what it is; i don't expect it to change a great deal)
15:19:21 <pfps> sandro: Turtle isn't going to have extensions, so talk about that won't do
15:19:45 <pfps> gavin: But there is not yet an error conformance for Turtle
15:19:54 <sandro> (me said that much more softly than it was transcribed!)
15:20:48 <pfps> gavin: little support for BASE and PREFIX with out @
15:21:13 <pfps> gavin: to align with SPARQL we would have to allow any-case
15:21:25 <AndyS> And 'a'
15:21:33 <pfps> gavin: right now @base has to be all lower case
15:21:47 <gavinc> true and false are also lower case
15:21:49 <sandro> gavin: In turtle, @prefix is lowercase
15:21:57 <pfps> david: WG decided to align Turtle and SPARQL where possible
15:22:43 <pfps> Sandro: but that was about aligning graph parts, so this is only in the spirit of the decision
15:22:52 <Zakim> -zwu2
15:23:27 <pfps> guus: I would like this to be a feature at risk, but there has to be a feature to remove if so
15:23:36 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:23:47 <pfps> gavin: do we need a new LC for conformance anyway?
15:24:00 <pfps> ivan: then we can't do last call 
15:24:07 <gavinc>
15:24:14 <PatH> pfps, say 'naked words' 
15:24:27 <pfps> sandro: procedurally possible, but not a good idea
15:24:42 <pfps> gavin: no test suite
15:24:56 <pfps> sandro: don't need a test suite
15:25:01 <sandro> sandro: it's not appropriate to go to LC planning on a second LC2
15:25:56 <pfps> gavin: section 9 includes the test suite by reference, so I thought that that was part of the document
15:26:29 <pfps> sandro: normally conformance is the design, not the test suit
15:26:41 <pfps> sandro: passing the test suite does not pass conformance
15:27:10 <ericP> -> SPARQL Conformance
15:27:11 <Arnaud> well, it may 
15:27:29 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
15:27:40 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), Sandro (9%), ericP (78%)
15:28:00 <pfps> eric: SPARQL has a very short conformance section
15:28:08 <pfps> sandro: which version?
15:28:20 <pfps> eric: see above
15:28:39 <pfps> guus: so we should put something like that in the document
15:28:56 <pfps> eric: I can rewrite the conformance section
15:29:56 <pfps> sandro: turtle test suite is in the wrong place - it needs to be a different directory
15:30:08 <ivan> +1 to sandro
15:30:31 <pfps> eric: the test suite is an accompanying document
15:31:06 <pfps> sandro: RDF 2004 has a TR test suite, but that isn't current practice
15:31:44 <pfps> eric: what about calling it a set of examples?
15:32:16 <pfps> sandro: examples linking to files is good, and this can be in TR space
15:32:52 <sandro> Yes, Gavin, I see ....      :-(
15:33:07 <pfps> eric: test suites are finallized fairly early
15:33:38 <pfps> ivan: no, they can even grow after REC, just need something frozen for process
15:33:57 <pfps> guus:  can we defer this until later?
15:34:01 <ericP> sure, we'll be about to go to LC for every
15:34:04 <ericP> ever
15:34:28 <pfps> sandro: LC doesn't need all the details of the test suite
15:34:47 <pfps> gavin: what to do about BASE and PREFIX?
15:35:07 <pfps> guus: feature at risk, to obviate the need for a second last call
15:35:16 <AndyS> Exactly as SPARQL?
15:35:33 <pfps> guus: gavin, is this OK by you
15:36:04 <pfps> gavin: it is partly a matter of readability - doesn't matter for SPARQL
15:36:23 <pfps> andy: SPARQL update alllows redefining prefixes
15:36:38 <pfps> gavin: can you see the declarations in long documents?
15:37:30 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.
15:37:48 <pfps> pfps: no period?
15:38:02 <pfps> andy: SPARQL has no . at end of line
15:38:14 <gavinc> -0.999
15:38:26 <pfps> david: I want consistency
15:39:05 <pfps> andy: either SPARQL or Turtle
15:39:19 <pfps> david: so no @ then no . ??
15:39:35 <pfps> sandro: that's as per the straw poll
15:39:51 <gavinc> pReFiX prefix <a> PrEfIx prefix2: <b> @prefix :prefix3 <c> .
15:40:06 <pfps> guus: that's ugly
15:40:18 <sandro> david: This would not break any old turtle.
15:41:10 <ericP> obfuscated turtle contest?
15:41:16 <sandro> So you can have ONE  text you cut/paste in SPARQL *and* TURTLE.
15:41:40 <pfps> david: only useful for compatability, otherwise useless
15:42:10 <pfps> gavin: but SPARQL doesn't allow prefixes throughout, which produces a subtle issue
15:43:00 <pfps> sandro: prefixes in middle is bad practice, but this allows one prefix stuff for both SPARQL and Turtle
15:43:20 <pfps> guus: time for strawpoll
15:43:23 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.
15:43:27 <sandro> +1
15:43:29 <ivan> +1
15:43:38 <MacTed> +0
15:43:44 <pfps> -0, as I'll be against it later
15:43:44 <gavinc> -0.7 ... I'm a bit more convinced 
15:43:48 <ericP> +1
15:43:54 <AndyS> +0.2
15:43:54 <davidwood> +0
15:43:57 <danbri> +0
15:44:00 <Souri> -0 (refrain)
15:44:02 <Arnaud> 0
15:44:03 <pchampin> +0
15:44:05 <tbaker> 0
15:44:07 <SteveH> 0
15:44:17 <zwu2> +0
15:44:27 <AlexHall> +0
15:44:35 <pfps> guus: even so, let's do a feature at risk, because it can be removed later
15:44:58 <pfps> guus:  OK, gavin?
15:45:03 <pfps> gavin:  ok, ok, grumble, grumble
15:45:24 <pfps> gavin: but I'll live
15:45:26 <sandro> RESOLVED: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.
15:45:44 <pfps> guus: grammar rule issues?
15:45:53 <gavinc> 
15:46:28 <pfps> gavin: turtle grammar should be updated 
15:46:55 <pfps> gavin: turtle grammar has been updated to reflect discussions
15:47:04 <pfps> eric: what about yakker work
15:47:34 <pfps> gavin: turtle isn't as complex as sparql, so it doesn't need all that
15:47:40 <pfps> eric: ok
15:48:08 <pfps> guus: let's delay for a week and schedule a formal decision next week
15:48:13 <pfps> guus: OK?
15:48:16 <sandro> q+ to make little grammar comment
15:48:30 <AndyS> Do remove the [*s] numbering style - it will change :-(
15:48:46 <pfps> gavin: SPARQL form prefixes only without the dot?
15:48:56 <pfps> guus: yes, that was the proposal
15:49:23 <pfps> gavin: numbering will go 
15:50:05 <pfps> gavin: hyperlinks might be possible, linking to the name of the production
15:50:30 <pfps> andy: SPARQL isn't at LC, so there is a slight risk
15:51:13 <pfps> guus: thanks to the editors
15:51:22 <pfps> Topic: RDF Concepts WD
15:51:44 <pfps> guus: richard is not here, but there is a list to look at
15:52:02 <pfps> guus: pending review issues
15:52:04 <ivan> -> Richard's mail
15:52:31 <pfps> guus:  issue-66 XSD datatype maps
15:52:38 <ivan> Issue-66?
15:52:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- pending review
15:52:38 <trackbot>
15:52:59 <pfps> guus: no further discussion, so we will close this one
15:53:14 <ivan> ISSUE-86?
15:53:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- pending review
15:53:14 <trackbot>
15:53:38 <pfps> guus: issue-86, divergent definitions of graph equivalence
15:53:57 <pfps> guus: no discussion, so this one is closed as well
15:54:01 <ivan> ISSUE-13?
15:54:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- pending review
15:54:01 <trackbot>
15:54:25 <pfps> guus: issue-13, xml literal, had some discussion
15:54:56 <mischat> mischat has joined #rdf-wg
15:55:22 <pfps> guus: ivan had some comments
15:55:41 <pfps> ivan: there was a long discussion
15:55:58 <pfps> ivan: the end was a clean proposal that is now in Concepts
15:56:29 <pfps> ivan: this appeared to be acceptable to the WG
15:56:37 <Zakim> +PatH
15:56:41 <pfps> guus: no discussion, so this issue will be closed
15:56:48 <PatH> zakim, mute me
15:56:49 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
15:57:16 <ivan> ISSUE-63?
15:57:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-63 -- Introduce an HTML5 datatype -- open
15:57:16 <trackbot>
15:57:28 <pfps> guus: ISSUE-63, HTML datatype
15:57:36 <gavinc>
15:57:50 <sandro> ericP, gavinc  -- isn't this wrong?    BLANK_NODE_LABEL		::= 	'_:' PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ((PN_CHARS | '.')* PN_CHARS)?              There should be parens around PN_CHARS_U | [0-9].
15:58:19 <pfps> ivan: canonicalization ....
15:58:53 <pfps> ivan: should there be equality on the value space? yes
15:59:11 <pfps> ivan: internationalization group is interested here
15:59:24 <gavinc> sandro, sigh, yess... [135s] BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ((PN_CHARS|'.')* PN_CHARS)? :(
15:59:41 <gavinc> see
15:59:46 <pfps> ivan: lexical equality doesn't survive beautification
16:00:16 <pfps> ivan: my view is that we accept HTML datatypes as optional
16:00:54 <Guus> PROPSED to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in
16:01:15 <ivan> PROPOSED:  to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in
16:01:22 <PatH> +1 
16:01:23 <ivan> +1
16:01:24 <pfps> guus: discussion?
16:01:32 <pfps> +0
16:01:39 <gavinc> +1 without canonical mapping
16:01:48 <tbaker> 0
16:02:21 <ivan> PROPOSED:  to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in but without the definition of the canonical mapping
16:02:28 <davidwood> +1
16:02:29 <pfps> +0
16:02:31 <ivan> +1
16:02:33 <zwu2> +0
16:02:36 <MacTed> +0
16:02:38 <PatH> +1
16:02:39 <pchampin> +1
16:02:40 <SteveH> +1
16:02:41 <gavinc> +1
16:02:46 <tbaker> +0
16:02:50 <sandro> +1
16:02:55 <ivan> RESOLVED:  to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in but without the definition of the canonical mapping
16:03:17 <pfps> ivan: someone should respond to the I14N WG
16:03:24 <Arnaud> belated +1 :)
16:03:36 <pfps> ACTION ivan: tell I14N WG about HTML 5 resolution
16:03:36 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan
16:03:36 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)
16:03:46 <Souri> Gavin, in N-Triple originally (, EBNF for blank node label was:    name 	::= 	[A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9]*
16:04:54 <gavinc> Souri, yes, blank nodes in N-Triples are not exactly the same as in Test Cases
16:05:38 <PatH> track me if you can
16:05:45 <Souri> So, the first character had to be Alpha earlier, but we are now going to allow AlphaNumeric as the first character -- just confirming.
16:06:06 <pfps> guus: issue 87
16:06:14 <gavinc> Souri, correct.
16:06:21 <sandro> gavin, have you seen    (I discovered it yesterday -- it makes railroad diagrams in SVG from BNF.)
16:06:27 <pfps> guus: issue 87 check datatypes
16:06:44 <PatH> +q
16:06:46 <davidwood> Ivan's action is at
16:06:51 <PatH> zakim, unmute me
16:06:51 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted
16:06:59 <sandro> ack sandro 
16:06:59 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road" and to make little grammar comment
16:07:00 <Guus> ack sandro
16:07:22 <pfps> path: comment back from OWL WG?
16:07:40 <PatH> zakim, mute me
16:07:40 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
16:07:43 <pfps> pfps: no substantive comment so we can proceed
16:08:54 <pfps> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per
16:09:01 <pfps> +1
16:09:07 <gavinc> +1
16:09:15 <PatH> +1
16:09:16 <ivan> +1
16:09:18 <MacTed> +1
16:09:18 <danbri> +1
16:09:18 <sandro> +1
16:09:26 <pfps> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per
16:09:31 <tbaker> +1
16:09:52 <zwu2> +1
16:10:01 <pfps> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per
16:10:22 <pfps> +0
16:10:31 <PatH> +1
16:10:33 <AlexHall> +1
16:10:37 <Arnaud> +1
16:10:37 <gavinc> +1 aligns with <time> model in HTML5 as well
16:10:38 <davidwood> +1
16:10:39 <ivan> +1
16:10:41 <zwu2> 0
16:10:54 <MacTed> +1
16:10:59 <pchampin> +1
16:11:09 <pfps> RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per
16:11:27 <davidwood> +1
16:11:41 <PatH> +0 is no objection, 0 is really dont care, -0 is no formal objection but yuck.
16:11:43 <davidwood> Apache voting process (definition of numbers):
16:11:44 <pfps> guus: leave formal decision on WD for next week
16:11:57 <tbaker> +0: "I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this'
16:12:05 <pfps> guus: 4 minutes left
16:12:10 <pfps> Topic: Named Graphs
16:12:35 <sandro>
16:12:20 <pfps> what about "space" vs "data space"?
16:12:50 <pfps> guus: please look at RDF spaces document from Sandro and determine where you stand
16:13:15 <PatH> I owe Sandro some semantics input.
16:13:16 <AndyS> I would like to see the key points extracted to be clear what's most important and what's editorial/unfinished.
16:13:30 <sandro> I think those are clearly marked in the draft.....
16:14:04 <pfps> guus: some of these issues will be discussed next week
16:14:06 <AndyS> sandro - no - ones keep coming up that aren't highlighted.
16:14:34 <sandro> like what....?
16:14:35 <pfps> sandro: I edited agenda to include more context
16:14:37 <PatH> peter needs some tech input.
16:14:49 <pfps> guus: five more minutes?
16:15:00 <AndyS> fine
16:15:05 <gavinc> +1 to extending for 5 minutes a conversation that has been going on for more than 8 years ;)
16:15:07 <PatH> +5
16:15:26 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-5 ("Should we define Graph Literal datatypes?"), saying No, we should not. 
16:15:32 <pfps> guus: let's look at the first three proposals
16:15:53 <gavinc> +1 No graph literals
16:16:01 <pfps> q+
16:16:05 <sandro> +0 given practical issues, yeah, I guess these are not our best option.
16:16:14 <PatH> q-
16:16:16 <Souri> +1 No Graph Literals
16:16:58 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:16:58 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:17:01 <danbri> (I didn't think agendas bound us that strongly)
16:17:03 <gavinc> -1 to more freaking strawpolls
16:17:19 <pfps> guus: issue 5 graph literals - there have been no proposals for this
16:17:22 <Arnaud> why is it a problem?
16:17:30 <pfps> pfps: I don't remember that resolving was on the agenda
16:17:33 <gavinc> We've had strawpolls on these issues at least 3 times in the past
16:17:57 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:17:58 <LeeF> I don't understand at all how you can read the agenda and not understand that we'd be trying to resolve these proposals.
16:18:12 <pfps> guus: agenda said straw polls, and maybe resolution
16:18:43 <pfps> guus: as there was some ambiguity we should defer to next week
16:18:49 <zwu2> Got to go. Bye
16:18:54 <PatH> Anyone who grew up with cattle knows that too much straw has only one inevitable product.
16:18:59 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:19:00 <Zakim> +??P59
16:19:04 <pfps> guus: adjourn, and next week will be about named graphs
16:19:05 <Zakim> -Thomas_Baker
16:19:07 <Zakim> -danbri
16:19:07 <Zakim> -ericP
16:19:08 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:19:08 <AndyS> zakim, ??P59 is me
16:19:08 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:19:10 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:19:14 <Zakim> -Souri
16:19:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute AndyS
16:19:16 <Zakim> -AlexHall
16:19:16 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted
16:19:17 <Zakim> -PatH
16:19:23 <AlexHall> RRSAgent, make records public
16:19:34 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:19:36 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:19:42 <AlexHall> pfps, - directions at top
16:20:15 <AndyS> For the record ... "not difficult"
16:20:21 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:20:23 <Zakim> -davidwood
16:20:25 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:20:31 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:20:33 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:20:40 <Zakim> -Guus
16:20:43 <Zakim> -pfps
16:20:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:20:44 <Zakim> Attendees were pfps, Ivan, +1.707.861.aaaa, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, Guus, Sandro, +1.408.996.aadd, +1.617.324.aaee, ericP, Arnaud, AndyS,
16:20:44 <Zakim> ... Souri, +1.617.553.aaff, LeeF, MacTed, danbri, Thomas_Baker, +1.443.212.aagg, AlexHall, zwu2, PatH
16:20:49 <MacTed> (sorry for muting you, Andy... the waterfall noise cuts everyone else out)
16:20:54 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:21:21 <AndyS> MacTex - np - skype dropped out and that is a sign of network bad quality 
16:21:41 <AndyS> AndyS has left #rdf-wg
16:22:11 <PatH> Theorem. For any committee and any time-period, there exists an agenda item for which the committee will spend that time=period trying to decide what to do, without actually doing anything about that agenda item. (The WG Fixpoint Theorem.)