RDF Working Group

Minutes of 02 March 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02
Seen
Alex Hall, Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Christopher Matheus, Dan Brickley, David Wood, Fabien Gandon, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Lee Feigenbaum, Manu Sporny, Matteo Brunati, Mischa Tuffield, Nathan Rixham, Nicholas Humfrey, Olivier Corby, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Scott Bauer, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Thomas Steiner, Yves Raimond, Zhe Wu
Regrets
Dan Brickley, Yves Raimond, Nicholas Humfrey, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Thomas Steiner
Chair
David Wood
Scribe
Scott Bauer
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. accept last week's minutes link
Topics
<sandro> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02
15:19:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/02-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/02-rdf-wg-irc

15:21:26 <LeeF> Hard to disagree with that

Lee Feigenbaum: Hard to disagree with that

15:21:47 <LeeF> I think I will never get used to reading the "@" sigil in JSON-LD correctly, alas

Lee Feigenbaum: I think I will never get used to reading the "@" sigil in JSON-LD correctly, alas

15:22:05 <mischat> manu: in your trig looking examples, in the example "Graph Changes Over Time" for example, you have trailing "'s

Manu Sporny: in your trig looking examples, in the example "Graph Changes Over Time" for example, you have trailing "'s [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

15:22:06 <mischat>  "2011-02-26T00:00:00+0000"^^<http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#dateTime>

Mischa Tuffield: "2011-02-26T00:00:00+0000"^^<http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#dateTime>

15:22:10 <mischat> "

Mischa Tuffield: "

15:22:43 <hsbauer> Scribe:  Scott Bauer

(Scribe set to Scott Bauer)

15:22:44 <manu> @LeeF yeah - we could change it to something else? Every time I've changed the key that establishes the subject, somebody complains about it :P

Manu Sporny: @LeeF yeah - we could change it to something else? Every time I've changed the key that establishes the subject, somebody complains about it :P

15:23:02 <hsbauer> ScribeNick: hsbauer
15:23:20 <hsbauer> Meeting:  RDF WG Teleconference
15:24:14 <LeeF> oh i wasn't complaining, manu, i'm just not used to it

Lee Feigenbaum: oh i wasn't complaining, manu, i'm just not used to it

15:24:17 <LeeF> I think it's kind of clever

Lee Feigenbaum: I think it's kind of clever

15:25:28 <hsbauer> is david wood chair today?

is david wood chair today?

15:25:49 <manu> LeeF, it's annoying at first, and then you get used to it. '@' was supposed to symbolize - "This object can be found at..." or "This object describes the data at..." or "This object exists at..."

Manu Sporny: LeeF, it's annoying at first, and then you get used to it. '@' was supposed to symbolize - "This object can be found at..." or "This object describes the data at..." or "This object exists at..."

15:29:12 <hsbauer> Chair: David Wood
15:29:49 <hsbauer> zakim, this will be SW_RDFWG

zakim, this will be SW_RDFWG

15:29:49 <Zakim> ok, hsbauer; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 31 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, hsbauer; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 31 minutes

15:33:18 <mischat> um, turtle does allow "." before "]" when writing predicateObject lists, as per rule 7 in the turtle submission thing. The correct (turtle'd version of your example) http://pastebin.com/K7D9LQ36 (obviously this is less the graph bit you would get in trig).

Mischa Tuffield: um, turtle does allow "." before "]" when writing predicateObject lists, as per rule 7 in the turtle submission thing. The correct (turtle'd version of your example) http://pastebin.com/K7D9LQ36 (obviously this is less the graph bit you would get in trig).

15:42:48 <mischat> ok may do that afterwards :)

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Mischa Tuffield: ok may do that afterwards :)

15:51:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 8 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

15:51:45 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer

Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer

15:52:59 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, set log public

15:54:32 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

15:54:44 <Zakim> +FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon

15:55:00 <Zakim> +gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc

15:55:12 <gavinc> zakim, mute me

Gavin Carothers: zakim, mute me

15:55:12 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc should now be muted

15:56:52 <davidwood> Meeting: RDF Working Group
15:56:57 <davidwood> Chair: David Wood
15:57:28 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:57:33 <manu> zakim, code?

Manu Sporny: zakim, code?

15:57:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), manu

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), manu

15:57:44 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

15:57:47 <manu> zakim, I am ??P9

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P9

15:57:47 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it

15:57:47 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:57:49 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:57:49 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:57:55 <davidwood> Scribe: Scott Bauer
15:57:58 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:58:12 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:58:12 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:58:23 <davidwood> ScribeNick: hsbauer
15:58:40 <davidwood> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02
15:58:44 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

15:58:56 <mischat> zakim, P10 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, P10 is me

15:58:56 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'

15:59:02 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider

15:59:07 <mischat> zakim, ??P10 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P10 is me

15:59:07 <Zakim> +mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it

15:59:10 <mischat> zakim, mute me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, mute me

15:59:10 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should now be muted

15:59:25 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

15:59:32 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:59:33 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P12 is me

15:59:33 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:59:49 <Zakim> +corby

Zakim IRC Bot: +corby

16:00:03 <PatHayes> Im not hearing the breathing.

Patrick Hayes: Im not hearing the breathing.

16:00:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:00:07 <Zakim> +Alex_Hall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alex_Hall

16:00:11 <webr3> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

Nathan Rixham: zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

16:00:11 <Zakim> sorry, webr3, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, webr3, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

16:00:12 <Zakim> +AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ

16:00:18 <webr3> zakim, IPcaller is me

Nathan Rixham: zakim, IPcaller is me

16:00:18 <Zakim> +webr3; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +webr3; got it

16:00:28 <AlexHall> zakim, Alex_Hall is me

Alex Hall: zakim, Alex_Hall is me

16:00:28 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it

16:00:49 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?

David Wood: Zakim, who is here?

16:00:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, davidwood, FabGandon, gavinc (muted), PatH, manu, Ivan (muted), Sandro, mischat (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, LeeF, corby, webr3, AlexHall,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, davidwood, FabGandon, gavinc (muted), PatH, manu, Ivan (muted), Sandro, mischat (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, LeeF, corby, webr3, AlexHall,

16:00:52 <Zakim> ... AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: ... AZ

16:00:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see AlexHall, AZ, pfps, mbrunati, AndyS, PatHayes, OlivierCorby, FabGandon, gavinc, webr3, RRSAgent, cygri, hsbauer, LeeF, ivan, mischat, SteveH, danbri, davidwood, yvesr,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AlexHall, AZ, pfps, mbrunati, AndyS, PatHayes, OlivierCorby, FabGandon, gavinc, webr3, RRSAgent, cygri, hsbauer, LeeF, ivan, mischat, SteveH, danbri, davidwood, yvesr,

16:00:57 <Zakim> ... manu, manu1, Zakim, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... manu, manu1, Zakim, sandro, trackbot

16:00:58 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus_Schreiber

16:01:30 <Zakim> +zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2

16:01:51 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

16:01:51 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted

16:02:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:02:27 <Zakim> +cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri

<sandro> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

16:02:33 <danbri> regrets from me; at mini-NoTube F2F in Bristol (although not as I feared travelling so will follow in IRC)

Dan Brickley: regrets from me; at mini-NoTube F2F in Bristol (although not as I feared travelling so will follow in IRC)

16:02:51 <mbrunati> zakim, who is here

Matteo Brunati: zakim, who is here

16:02:51 <Zakim> mbrunati, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: mbrunati, you need to end that query with '?'

16:03:05 <mbrunati> zakim, who is here?

Matteo Brunati: zakim, who is here?

16:03:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, davidwood, FabGandon, gavinc (muted), PatH, manu, Ivan (muted), Sandro, mischat (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, LeeF, corby, webr3, AlexHall,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, davidwood, FabGandon, gavinc (muted), PatH, manu, Ivan (muted), Sandro, mischat (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, LeeF, corby, webr3, AlexHall,

16:03:08 <Zakim> ... AZ (muted), Guus_Schreiber, zwu2, [IPcaller], cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: ... AZ (muted), Guus_Schreiber, zwu2, [IPcaller], cygri

16:03:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see cmatheus, Guus, SteveH__, AlexHall, AZ, pfps, mbrunati, AndyS, PatHayes, OlivierCorby, FabGandon, gavinc, webr3, RRSAgent, cygri, hsbauer, LeeF, ivan, mischat, SteveH,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cmatheus, Guus, SteveH__, AlexHall, AZ, pfps, mbrunati, AndyS, PatHayes, OlivierCorby, FabGandon, gavinc, webr3, RRSAgent, cygri, hsbauer, LeeF, ivan, mischat, SteveH,

16:03:15 <Zakim> ... danbri, davidwood, yvesr, manu, manu1, Zakim, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... danbri, davidwood, yvesr, manu, manu1, Zakim, sandro, trackbot

16:03:20 <sandro> regrets: danbri, souri
16:03:24 <mbrunati> zakim, [IPCaller] is me

Matteo Brunati: zakim, [IPCaller] is me

16:03:24 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it

16:03:36 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?

Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call?

16:03:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, davidwood, FabGandon, gavinc (muted), PatH, manu, Ivan (muted), Sandro, mischat (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, LeeF, corby, webr3, AlexHall,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, davidwood, FabGandon, gavinc (muted), PatH, manu, Ivan (muted), Sandro, mischat (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, LeeF, corby, webr3, AlexHall,

16:03:40 <Zakim> ... AZ (muted), Guus_Schreiber, zwu2, mbrunati, cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: ... AZ (muted), Guus_Schreiber, zwu2, mbrunati, cygri

16:03:45 <SteveH__> Zakim, what's the code?

Steve Harris: Zakim, what's the code?

16:03:45 <AZ> AZ is for Antoine Zimmermann

Antoine Zimmermann: AZ is for Antoine Zimmermann

16:03:48 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), SteveH__

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), SteveH__

16:03:58 <zwu2> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

16:03:58 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted

16:04:13 <hsbauer> regrets: danbri, yvesr, nickh, champin, tomayac
16:04:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:04:21 <SteveH> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:04:21 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

16:04:28 <davidwood> Agenda is at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02

David Wood: Agenda is at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02

16:04:45 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF WG Meeting 2011-03-02  http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02

Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: RDF WG Meeting 2011-03-02 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02

16:04:59 <pfps> minutes look fine to me

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes look fine to me

16:05:06 <AndyS> Regrets for last time: AndyS

Andy Seaborne: Regrets for last time: AndyS

16:05:07 <hsbauer> david: proposes to accept last weeks minutes

David Wood: proposes to accept last weeks minutes

16:05:12 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:05:15 <FabGandon> +1

Fabien Gandon: +1

16:05:18 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:05:23 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

16:05:26 <sandro> RESOLVED: accept last week's minutes

RESOLVED: accept last week's minutes

16:05:41 <hsbauer> david: action item review

David Wood: action item review

16:05:43 <davidwood> Action items pending review: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

David Wood: Action items pending review: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

16:05:43 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - items

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - items

16:05:47 <PatHayes> ignore this, testing.

Patrick Hayes: ignore this, testing.

16:06:04 <sandro> manu, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02

Sandro Hawke: manu, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.02

16:06:47 <hsbauer> ... pending review alex has completed use case, scott has completed use case

... pending review alex has completed use case, scott has completed use case

16:06:51 <AZ> zakim, unmute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, unmute me

16:06:51 <Zakim> AZ should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should no longer be muted

16:07:11 <hsbauer> ... peter, antoine both completed use cases

... peter, antoine both completed use cases

16:07:16 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:07:35 <trackbot> ACTION-1 Provide a use case format notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-1 Provide a use case format notes added

16:07:42 <sandro> close action-1

Sandro Hawke: close ACTION-1

16:07:42 <trackbot> ACTION-1 Provide a use case format closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-1 Provide a use case format closed

16:07:48 <Zakim> +??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2

16:07:52 <davidwood> close action-8

David Wood: close ACTION-8

16:07:52 <trackbot> ACTION-8 Provide a use case for graphs closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-8 Provide a use case for graphs closed

16:07:56 <davidwood> close action-9

David Wood: close ACTION-9

16:07:56 <trackbot> ACTION-9 Provide a Revelytix use case for graphs closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-9 Provide a Revelytix use case for graphs closed

16:07:59 <davidwood> close action-13

David Wood: close ACTION-13

16:07:59 <trackbot> ACTION-13 separate ontology named graph use case closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-13 separate ontology named graph use case closed

16:08:02 <davidwood> close action-14

David Wood: close ACTION-14

16:08:02 <trackbot> ACTION-14 Provide use cases for graphs in the wiki closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-14 Provide use cases for graphs in the wiki closed

16:08:14 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

16:08:16 <hsbauer> ... closing 8, 13, 14 and 9

... closing 8, 13, 14 and 9

16:08:46 <AZ> yversr must be him

Antoine Zimmermann: yversr must be him

16:08:57 <hsbauer> ... open action 4,5

... open ACTION-4,5

16:08:59 <davidwood> yvesr: Is action-5 complete?

David Wood: yvesr, Is ACTION-5 complete?

16:09:06 <yvesr> davidwood: i started on it

David Wood: i started on it [ Scribe Assist by Yves Raimond ]

16:09:09 <davidwood> ok

David Wood: ok

16:09:11 <yvesr> davidwood: we still need to polish it

David Wood: we still need to polish it [ Scribe Assist by Yves Raimond ]

16:09:17 <sandro> s/yvesr:/yvesr,/
16:09:19 <hsbauer> ... action 6, still open.

... ACTION-6, still open.

16:09:35 <mischat> Zakim, unmute me

Mischa Tuffield: Zakim, unmute me

16:09:35 <Zakim> mischat should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should no longer be muted

16:09:35 <sandro> mischat?

Sandro Hawke: mischat?

16:09:41 <yvesr> ivan: yes

Ivan Herman: yes [ Scribe Assist by Yves Raimond ]

16:09:46 <yvesr> ivan: but still a draft

Ivan Herman: but still a draft [ Scribe Assist by Yves Raimond ]

16:09:51 <hsbauer> ... action 7, 11 still open

... ACTION-7, 11 still open

16:10:02 <mischat> zakim, mute me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, mute me

16:10:02 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should now be muted

16:10:30 <hsbauer> ... what's our procedure for raised issues

... what's our procedure for raised issues

16:10:48 <hsbauer> ... will call out issues open them and discuss briefly

... will call out issues open them and discuss briefly

16:12:00 <hsbauer> ... is turtle the same as sparkle 1.0 -- issue one.

... is turtle the same as sparkle 1.0 -- issue one.

16:12:04 <webr3> could close the issue by saying "no" and responding with all differences

Nathan Rixham: could close the issue by saying "no" and responding with all differences

16:12:25 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking

zakim, who is talking

16:12:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', hsbauer

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', hsbauer

16:12:39 <hsbauer> david:  issue 2

David Wood: ISSUE-2

16:13:14 <sandro> issue-2?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-2?

16:13:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 -- What existing proposal, if any, should be the starting point/default for the JSON design? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-2 -- What existing proposal, if any, should be the starting point/default for the JSON design? -- open

16:13:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/2

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/2

16:13:39 <hsbauer> ... What existing proposal should be the starting point for the JSON issue

... What existing proposal should be the starting point for the JSON issue

16:14:20 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon

16:14:28 <Zakim> +FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon

16:14:42 <hsbauer> ... issue 3 also opened

... ISSUE-3 also opened

16:15:08 <hsbauer> ... issue of handling action item.  after pleading it mark it as pending review.

... issue of handling action item. after pleading it mark it as pending review.

16:15:44 <ivan> April 13 14 in Amsterdam, at CWI

Ivan Herman: April 13 14 in Amsterdam, at CWI

16:15:49 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F1

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F1

16:15:57 <hsbauer> ... F2F solid dates and location.  Group can start making travel plans.

... F2F solid dates and location. Group can start making travel plans.

16:16:18 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

16:16:22 <hsbauer> ... Place is TWI in Amsterdam 13th and 14th of march.

... Place is CWI in Amsterdam 13th and 14th of April.

16:16:28 <ivan> s/TWI/CWI/
16:16:32 <zwu2> april?

Zhe Wu: april?

16:16:37 <hsbauer> ... Ivan will take an action itme.

... Ivan will take an action itme.

16:16:46 <ivan> april

Ivan Herman: april

16:16:48 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F1

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F1

16:16:50 <ivan> s/march/April/
16:16:50 <davidwood> action: Guus to make hotel suggestions for FTF1

ACTION: Guus to make hotel suggestions for FTF1

16:16:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Make hotel suggestions for FTF1 [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-03-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-15 - Make hotel suggestions for FTF1 [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-03-09].

16:16:54 <hsbauer> ... correction 13th and 14th of April

... correction 13th and 14th of April

16:17:11 <sandro> ack sandro

Sandro Hawke: ack sandro

16:17:30 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

16:17:30 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted

16:17:39 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

16:17:39 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

16:17:59 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:18:09 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

16:18:09 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should no longer be muted

16:18:11 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: PatH (16%), Sandro (25%), Ivan (34%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: PatH (16%), Sandro (25%), Ivan (34%)

16:18:14 <zwu2> q

Zhe Wu: q

16:18:16 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

16:18:23 <davidwood> next agendum

David Wood: next agendum

16:18:37 <davidwood> ack zwu2

David Wood: ack zwu2

16:18:55 <davidwood> next agendum

David Wood: next agendum

16:19:19 <hsbauer> zwu2:  who is in charge of setting the meeting place?

Zhe Wu: who is in charge of setting the meeting place?

16:19:50 <LeeF> I may need to send regrets for the first F2F as it conflicts with the Bio IT conference in Boston, which I am semi-committed too

Lee Feigenbaum: I may need to send regrets for the first F2F as it conflicts with the Bio IT conference in Boston, which I am semi-committed to

16:19:54 <hsbauer> david:  team contacts set the first f2f out of expediency

David Wood: team contacts set the first f2f out of expediency

16:19:55 <LeeF> s/too/to
16:20:11 <hsbauer> ... 3 next will take input for those

... 3 next will take input for those

16:20:17 <hsbauer> ... this one is fixed

... this one is fixed

16:20:22 <gavinc> If I remember right there was no remote presence ability at CWI?

Gavin Carothers: If I remember right there was no remote presence ability at CWI?

16:20:30 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:20:36 <ivan> ack zwu2

Ivan Herman: ack zwu2

16:20:42 <ivan> ack zwu

Ivan Herman: ack zwu

16:21:05 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

16:21:06 <zwu2> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

16:21:07 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted

16:21:19 <hsbauer> I will also not be able to attend the first f2f

I will also not be able to attend the first f2f

16:21:29 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:21:40 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

16:21:54 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking

zakim, who is talking

16:21:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', hsbauer

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', hsbauer

16:22:00 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:22:11 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Scott_Bauer (16%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Scott_Bauer (16%)

16:22:11 <sandro> ivan: We will have remote audio for the F2F

Ivan Herman: We will have remote audio for the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:22:27 <sandro> ivan: we may be able to do some low-quality video (eg skype)

Ivan Herman: we may be able to do some low-quality video (eg skype) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:22:48 <LeeF> q+

Lee Feigenbaum: q+

16:22:59 <davidwood> ack LeeF

David Wood: ack LeeF

16:23:30 <hsbauer> Leef:  can we start on an agenda for f2f

Lee Feigenbaum: can we start on an agenda for f2f

16:23:30 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:23:49 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking

zakim, who is talking

16:23:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', hsbauer

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', hsbauer

16:23:53 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:24:04 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (31%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (31%)

16:24:18 <davidwood> next agendum

David Wood: next agendum

16:24:31 <ivan> -> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/amsterdam.html is a good page to convince sandro et al to hang around...

Ivan Herman: -> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/amsterdam.html is a good page to convince sandro et al to hang around...

16:24:44 <hsbauer> Topic: turtle task force

2. turtle task force

16:25:24 <hsbauer> david:  who will be participating.  discussion of mailing list asking for notes on this

David Wood: who will be participating. discussion of mailing list asking for notes on this

16:25:53 <hsbauer> ... important task forces have some level of self organization.

... important task forces have some level of self organization.

16:26:06 <hsbauer> ... have someone to speak for them.

... have someone to speak for them.

16:26:09 <AndyS> Step 1 -- people add names to TTL TF page

Andy Seaborne: Step 1 -- people add names to TTL TF page

16:26:35 <davidwood> Input material to Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Inputs_Turtle

David Wood: Input material to Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Inputs_Turtle

16:26:41 <hsbauer> ... most important to settle issue number one and deal with input material

... most important to settle issue number one and deal with input material

16:27:07 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:27:18 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (19%), Guus_Schreiber (19%), Ivan (10%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (19%), Guus_Schreiber (19%), Ivan (10%)

16:27:31 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF_interests

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF_interests

16:27:50 <hsbauer> Guus: can we ask for volunteers for spokespersons

Guus Schreiber: can we ask for volunteers for spokespersons

16:27:57 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:28:30 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

16:28:53 <hsbauer> ivan:  I have contacted dave, no response.  Eric T. is a possibility.

Ivan Herman: I have contacted dave, no response. Eric P. is a possibility.

16:29:10 <SteveH> s/Eric T./Eric P./
16:29:41 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:29:51 <sandro> hsbauer, that was Nathan

Sandro Hawke: hsbauer, that was Nathan

16:29:52 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (74%), AndyS (8%), Ivan (3%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (74%), AndyS (8%), Ivan (3%)

16:30:09 <sandro> webr3=Nathan, just to confuse you

Sandro Hawke: webr3=Nathan, just to confuse you

16:30:30 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

16:30:43 <hsbauer> afraid I missed the comment can someone summarize

afraid I missed the comment can someone summarize

16:30:45 <davidwood> ack andys

David Wood: ack andys

16:31:03 <gavinc> Would like to participate in the Turtle TF but don't really feel comfortable being the representative for it?

Gavin Carothers: Would like to participate in the Turtle TF but don't really feel comfortable being the representative for it?

16:31:21 <hsbauer> andys:  json task force has a list of names.  Is there a difference between interest and participation.

Andy Seaborne: json task force has a list of names. Is there a difference between interest and participation.

16:31:45 <hsbauer> david:  this may have not been a clear process for differentating.

David Wood: this may have not been a clear process for differentating.

16:31:54 <manu> q+ to volunteer to represent JSON TF

Manu Sporny: q+ to volunteer to represent JSON TF

16:32:11 <hsbauer> Topic: JSON

3. JSON

16:32:22 <davidwood> JSON TF: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-JSON

David Wood: JSON TF: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-JSON

16:32:26 <hsbauer> david:  we have participants, inputs and questions

David Wood: we have participants, inputs and questions

16:32:52 <hsbauer> manu: I'm interested in acting as spokeperson, but may have a conflict of interest.

Manu Sporny: I'm interested in acting as spokeperson, but may have a conflict of interest.

16:33:06 <PatHayes> I dont see a conflict of interest, quite the contrary.

Patrick Hayes: I dont see a conflict of interest, quite the contrary.

16:33:16 <nathan> likewise, no conflict imo

Nathan Rixham: likewise, no conflict imo

16:33:32 <hsbauer> david: personal opinion, editing spec and coordinating task force are not a conflict of interest

David Wood: personal opinion, editing spec and coordinating task force are not a conflict of interest

16:33:42 <manu> ACTION: Manu to summarize positions that folks have taken via the mailing list onto the wiki in an attempt to figure out which document should be used as a starting point for the RDF in JSON work.

ACTION: Manu to summarize positions that folks have taken via the mailing list onto the wiki in an attempt to figure out which document should be used as a starting point for the RDF in JSON work.

16:33:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Summarize positions that folks have taken via the mailing list onto the wiki in an attempt to figure out which document should be used as a starting point for the RDF in JSON work. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-03-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-16 - Summarize positions that folks have taken via the mailing list onto the wiki in an attempt to figure out which document should be used as a starting point for the RDF in JSON work. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-03-09].

16:33:53 <PatHayes> Nice try, but you got lumbered.

Patrick Hayes: Nice try, but you got lumbered.

16:34:22 <hsbauer> manu: taking an action item to summarize postions on the mailing list for json

Manu Sporny: taking an action item to summarize postions on the mailing list for json

16:35:00 <hsbauer> manu:  are we discussing task force tech issues here or just summarize issues here.

Manu Sporny: are we discussing task force tech issues here or just summarize issues here.

16:35:11 <hsbauer> david: up to the task force.

David Wood: up to the task force.

16:35:24 <Guus> q+

Guus Schreiber: q+

16:35:29 <manu> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

16:35:32 <hsbauer> ... clarify participants, coordinators is current issue

... clarify participants, coordinators is current issue

16:35:44 <manu> q+ to note that JSON-TF will need a separate call.

Manu Sporny: q+ to note that JSON-TF will need a separate call.

16:35:48 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:36:14 <davidwood> ack Guus

David Wood: ack Guus

16:36:16 <hsbauer> manu: json will need a separate call for a time

Manu Sporny: json will need a separate call for a time

16:36:18 <manu> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

16:36:52 <hsbauer> Guus:  tech discussions are ok, but will be busy with admin for the first few weeks.

Guus Schreiber: tech discussions are ok, but will be busy with admin for the first few weeks.

16:37:12 <davidwood> ack manu

David Wood: ack manu

16:37:12 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

16:37:17 <nathan> q+ to discuss tracker for TFs

Nathan Rixham: q+ to discuss tracker for TFs

16:37:20 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

16:37:25 <manu> q?

Manu Sporny: q?

16:37:49 <davidwood> ack nathan

David Wood: ack nathan

16:37:49 <Zakim> nathan, you wanted to discuss tracker for TFs

Zakim IRC Bot: nathan, you wanted to discuss tracker for TFs

16:38:19 <hsbauer> ivan: setting up a separate call is possible

Ivan Herman: setting up a separate call is possible

16:38:20 <manu> +1 to separate tracker entries by product

Manu Sporny: +1 to separate tracker entries by product

16:38:26 <AZ> +1 to ivan

Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to ivan

16:38:33 <gavinc> +1 and they are already setup: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products

Gavin Carothers: +1 and they are already setup: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products

16:38:34 <PatHayes> +1 to ivan

Patrick Hayes: +1 to ivan

16:38:49 <hsbauer> nathan:  can issues be opened by the task force?

Nathan Rixham: can issues be opened by the task force?

16:38:54 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

16:38:57 <sandro> +1 let TF's open issues for themselves

Sandro Hawke: +1 let TF's open issues for themselves

16:39:08 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

16:39:14 <zwu2> I just signed up for the graph tf

Zhe Wu: I just signed up for the graph tf

16:39:38 <hsbauer> david: this is ok

David Wood: this is ok

16:40:15 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q-

16:40:26 <sandro> topic: Graphs TF

Sandro Hawke:

16:40:28 <hsbauer> david: tracker will take care of tracking for all

David Wood: tracker will take care of tracking for all

16:40:39 <hsbauer> Topic: Graph Task Force

4. Graphs Task Force

16:40:51 <sandro> s/Graph/Graphs/
16:41:13 <sandro> s/topic: Graphs TF//
16:41:20 <hsbauer> david:  summarize immediate issues

David Wood: summarize immediate issues

16:41:40 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:41:44 <manu> I really liked Sandro's g-box, g-snap, g-text e-mail

Manu Sporny: I really liked Sandro's g-box, g-snap, g-text e-mail

16:41:47 <sandro> it's LeeF

Sandro Hawke: it's LeeF

16:41:51 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (24%), LeeF (100%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (24%), LeeF (100%)

16:41:54 <Guus> suggest to have a wiki page with terms and their defs, as synthesis of ongoing discussion

Guus Schreiber: suggest to have a wiki page with terms and their defs, as synthesis of ongoing discussion

16:42:27 <hsbauer> Leef:  discussions on serializations, sharing, multiple blank nodes.

Lee Feigenbaum: discussions on serializations, sharing, multiple blank nodes.

16:43:01 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC

16:43:02 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:43:13 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (4%), Ivan (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (4%), Ivan (4%)

16:43:43 <hsbauer> manu: httpRange-14 bound to come up at some point

Manu Sporny: httpRange-14 bound to come up at some point

16:43:59 <nathan> that's ISSUE-57 on the TAG now, and AWWSW TF covers too (I, nathan, work w/ JAR on that)

Nathan Rixham: that's ISSUE-57 on the TAG now, and AWWSW TF covers too (I, nathan, work w/ JAR on that)

16:44:04 <manu> We should coordinate with Jonathan Rees on the W3C TAG and the SPARQL WG

Manu Sporny: We should coordinate with Jonathan Rees on the W3C TAG and the SPARQL WG

16:44:06 <PatHayes> +1 to speaker re. sparql

Patrick Hayes: +1 to speaker re. sparql

16:44:16 <hsbauer> Leef: should liase with sparql working group asap

Lee Feigenbaum: should liase with sparql working group asap

16:44:41 <sandro> lee: SPARQL WG is moving to Last Call with its notion of Graphs

Lee Feigenbaum: SPARQL WG is moving to Last Call with its notion of Graphs [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:44:55 <AlexHall> what is the specific issue wrt graphs and SPARQL wg?

Alex Hall: what is the specific issue wrt graphs and SPARQL wg?

16:45:00 <hsbauer> who is talking?

who is talking?

16:45:03 <manu> Folks will want to re-read: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC ... really good stuff in there.

Manu Sporny: Folks will want to re-read: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC ... really good stuff in there.

16:45:25 <PatHayes> Suggest that biggest issue might turn out to be, does a GET get the whole graph or can you find out how big the damn thing is first? That is a real issue, most of them are nomenclature.

Patrick Hayes: Suggest that biggest issue might turn out to be, does a GET get the whole graph or can you find out how big the damn thing is first? That is a real issue, most of them are nomenclature.

16:45:41 <FabGandon> q+ to talk about Linked Data and SPARQL HTTP-GET on named graph

Fabien Gandon: q+ to talk about Linked Data and SPARQL HTTP-GET on named graph

16:45:50 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:45:54 <manu> PatHayes, HEAD /graph ?

Manu Sporny: PatHayes, HEAD /graph ?

16:46:00 <hsbauer> Leef:  if issues related to sparql wg are raised some contact should be made

Lee Feigenbaum: if issues related to sparql wg are raised some contact should be made

16:46:01 <davidwood> ack FabGandon

David Wood: ack FabGandon

16:46:01 <Zakim> FabGandon, you wanted to talk about Linked Data and SPARQL HTTP-GET on named graph

Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon, you wanted to talk about Linked Data and SPARQL HTTP-GET on named graph

16:46:14 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-get

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-get

16:46:24 <nathan> PatHayes, agree, there's also if the <u> refers to both the "subject" and the "graph" - tis a gotcha

Nathan Rixham: PatHayes, agree, there's also if the <u> refers to both the "subject" and the "graph" - tis a gotcha

16:46:38 <PatHayes> manu, I know , but it feels like a dangerous issue where one WG might close a door that another WG needs to have open.

Patrick Hayes: manu, I know , but it feels like a dangerous issue where one WG might close a door that another WG needs to have open.

16:46:43 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:46:55 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

16:47:07 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

16:47:19 <AndyS>  Also: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_graphstore (from SPARQL 1.1 Update)

Andy Seaborne: Also: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_graphstore (from SPARQL 1.1 Update)

16:47:26 <davidwood> +1 to PatHayer

David Wood: +1 to PatHayer

16:47:30 <sandro> FabGandon: I think there's a mismatch about graph vs resource here, when you dereference.

Fabien Gandon: I think there's a mismatch about graph vs resource here, when you dereference. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:47:32 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

16:47:32 <hsbauer> FabGandon:  some differences between practices especially around dereferencing.

Fabien Gandon: some differences between practices especially around dereferencing.

16:47:36 <davidwood> s/Pathayer/PatHayes/

David Wood: s/Pathayer/PatHayes/ (warning: replacement failed)

16:48:01 <PatHayes> +1 to speaker.

Patrick Hayes: +1 to speaker.

16:48:03 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:48:09 <hsbauer> ... what people are doing when defrerencing a uri

... what people are doing when defrerencing a uri

16:48:19 <manu> I tend to see that most people get information about the resource they're dereferencing - the graph is the representation about the resource.

Manu Sporny: I tend to see that most people get information about the resource they're dereferencing - the graph is the representation about the resource.

16:48:33 <hsbauer> cygri: opmitting what happens when you look up a uri

Richard Cyganiak: opmitting what happens when you look up a uri

16:48:39 <hsbauer> thanks ivan

thanks ivan

16:48:57 <manu> perhaps, that's naive - but that seems to be the data people are publishing now w/ RDFa.

Manu Sporny: perhaps, that's naive - but that seems to be the data people are publishing now w/ RDFa.

16:49:01 <nathan> so, follow your nose is a pita we need to clarify soon, especially w/ graphs uris, lod, issue-57 on tag and so forth - not in charter? can we get away with /not/ getting consensus and agrement

Nathan Rixham: so, follow your nose is a pita we need to clarify soon, especially w/ graphs uris, lod, ISSUE-57 on tag and so forth - not in charter? can we get away with /not/ getting consensus and agrement

16:49:17 <manu> and I really don't like 303 redirects for most use cases :/

Manu Sporny: and I really don't like 303 redirects for most use cases :/

16:49:27 <hsbauer> cygri: looks up a uri on a person which leads to a document.  one does a redirect and another gives an rdf:desc with is a graph

Richard Cyganiak: looks up a uri on a person which leads to a document. one does a redirect and another gives an rdf:desc with is a graph

16:49:52 <PatHayes> Is a graph an IR? A g-box surely is, right?

Patrick Hayes: Is a graph an IR? A g-box surely is, right?

16:49:54 <hsbauer> ... keep in mind that you shouldn't use the same uri for identifying person and graph.

... keep in mind that you shouldn't use the same uri for identifying person and graph.

16:49:59 <davidwood> ack sandro

David Wood: ack sandro

16:50:01 <nathan> PatHayes, yes exactly

Nathan Rixham: PatHayes, yes exactly

16:50:21 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

16:50:27 <cygri> hsbauer, it's sandro

Richard Cyganiak: hsbauer, it's sandro

16:50:32 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (70%), AndyS (4%), Ivan (20%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (70%), AndyS (4%), Ivan (20%)

16:50:47 <hsbauer> sandro:  graph is used with considerable ambiguity

Sandro Hawke: graph is used with considerable ambiguity

16:50:51 <manu> +1 to Sandro's g-box, g-snap, g-text viewpoint

Manu Sporny: +1 to Sandro's g-box, g-snap, g-text viewpoint

16:51:14 <hsbauer> ... proposed three terms in practice most often

... proposed three terms in practice most often

16:51:32 <davidwood> In my view, a g-box is an IR.

David Wood: In my view, a g-box is an IR.

16:51:33 <hsbauer> ... g-box is the container  what sparql means

... g-box is the container what sparql means

16:51:42 <hsbauer> ... g-snap

... g-snap

16:51:53 <PatHayes> Ahem. That is what the RDF specs say a graph is.

Patrick Hayes: Ahem. That is what the RDF specs say a graph is.

16:51:56 <hsbauer> ... g-text serialization

... g-text serialization

16:52:17 <manu> q+ to note preference for Sandro's g-box/g-snap/g-text proposal.

Manu Sporny: q+ to note preference for Sandro's g-box/g-snap/g-text proposal.

16:52:31 <LeeF> davidwood, I believe that is the view of the SPARQL RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol as well

Lee Feigenbaum: davidwood, I believe that is the view of the SPARQL RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol as well

16:52:33 <PatHayes> BTW, I entirely agree with sandro's analysis and his ghastly but usable terminology.

Patrick Hayes: BTW, I entirely agree with sandro's analysis and his ghastly but usable terminology.

16:52:44 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:52:48 <davidwood> ack manu

David Wood: ack manu

16:52:48 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note preference for Sandro's g-box/g-snap/g-text proposal.

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to note preference for Sandro's g-box/g-snap/g-text proposal.

16:52:48 <sandro> sandro: explaining http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Feb/0092.html

Sandro Hawke: explaining http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Feb/0092.html [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:53:01 <hsbauer> manu:  like sandro's email.  clarifies what we are talking about.

Manu Sporny: like sandro's email. clarifies what we are talking about.

16:53:28 <cygri> q+ to ask about "graph" in RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to ask about "graph" in RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics

16:53:30 <PatHayes> Lets agree that g-snaps are RDF graphs, ie abstract sets.

Patrick Hayes: Lets agree that g-snaps are RDF graphs, ie abstract sets.

16:53:33 <hsbauer> ... the terms may change but this is what we are talking about.

... the terms may change but this is what we are talking about.

16:53:36 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:53:36 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask about "graph" in RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to ask about "graph" in RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics

16:54:06 <webr3> PatHayes, +1 yes lets, and not a REST "value" at some time - purely an RDF concept, abstract graph, set of triples

Nathan Rixham: PatHayes, +1 yes lets, and not a REST "value" at some time - purely an RDF concept, abstract graph, set of triples

16:54:13 <hsbauer> cygri: rdf semantics g-snap?  need clarification.

Richard Cyganiak: rdf semantics g-snap? need clarification.

16:54:40 <hsbauer> ... triples or model theoritic interpretation.

... triples or model theoritic interpretation.

16:54:53 <hsbauer> ... do these documents say the same thing.

... do these documents say the same thing.

16:54:57 <hsbauer> thanks

thanks

16:55:20 <hsbauer> PatHayes: model theory doesn't depend on the graph syntax.

Patrick Hayes: the model theory doesn't depend on the graph syntax.

16:55:40 <sandro> s/model/the model/
16:55:44 <hsbauer> ...  can be adapted

... can be adapted

16:56:03 <hsbauer> ... we wanted a not to concrete definition

... we wanted a not to concrete definition

16:56:36 <hsbauer> ... feeling that we didn't want a central model attached to a particular style

... feeling that we didn't want a central model attached to a particular style

16:57:27 <hsbauer> ... g-snaps instances of g-box -- apparently the mathematical version of the g-box

... g-snaps instances of g-box -- apparently the mathematical version of the g-box

16:57:29 <manu> I thought g-snaps were supposed to be an non-serialized snapshot of a g-box

Manu Sporny: I thought g-snaps were supposed to be an non-serialized snapshot of a g-box

16:57:46 <hsbauer> ... g-box and g-text fit in the web arch story.

... g-box and g-text fit in the web arch story.

16:57:47 <webr3> manu, yes correct, abstract set of triples

Nathan Rixham: manu, yes correct, abstract set of triples

16:58:04 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

16:58:19 <hsbauer> ... g-text is a serialization of the rdf-graph my understanding.

... g-text is a serialization of the rdf-graph my understanding.

16:58:20 <cygri> thanks

Richard Cyganiak: thanks

16:58:26 <AZ> totally right, Pat

Antoine Zimmermann: totally right, Pat

16:58:44 <mbrunati> .)

Matteo Brunati: .)

16:59:01 <manu> g-box is the REST Information Resource, it's state at a point in time is a g-snap... if you do an HTTP GET on the IR, you get a g-text.

Manu Sporny: g-box is the REST Information Resource, it's state at a point in time is a g-snap... if you do an HTTP GET on the IR, you get a g-text.

16:59:06 <hsbauer> david: action item for pat to summarize the issue in an email

David Wood: action item for pat to summarize the issue in an email

16:59:41 <manu> so, effectively graphs are just another type of IR - fits really well with Web Architecture.

Manu Sporny: so, effectively graphs are just another type of IR - fits really well with Web Architecture.

16:59:48 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:59:49 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin to try and produce a digram based on the g-box, g-snap, g-text model from Sandro's email and this conversation

Gavin Carothers: ACTION Gavin to try and produce a digram based on the g-box, g-snap, g-text model from Sandro's email and this conversation

16:59:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-17 - Try and produce a digram based on the g-box, g-snap, g-text model from Sandro's email and this conversation [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-03-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-17 - Try and produce a digram based on the g-box, g-snap, g-text model from Sandro's email and this conversation [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-03-09].

17:00:11 <hsbauer> david:  moving on from graph issue.

David Wood: moving on from graph issue.

17:00:18 <webr3> I'll write up action 7 now then <yay>

Nathan Rixham: I'll write up ACTION-7 now then <yay>

17:00:25 <hsbauer> Topic: F2f agenda

5. F2f agenda

17:01:03 <hsbauer> david: issues on our timeline

David Wood: issues on our timeline

17:01:22 <hsbauer> ... first deliverable due in May.

... first deliverable due in May.

17:01:27 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

17:01:33 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:01:37 <sandro> q+ to clarify documents

Sandro Hawke: q+ to clarify documents

17:01:46 <hsbauer> ... work out tf starting points and organization

... work out tf starting points and organization

17:01:55 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

17:02:13 <sandro> andy: "Recommendation Set" ?

Andy Seaborne: "Recommendation Set" ? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:02:27 <hsbauer> andys: what do you mean by the rdf recommendation set?

Andy Seaborne: what do you mean by the rdf recommendation set?

17:02:39 <hsbauer> david: check the Charter

David Wood: check the Charter

17:02:51 <davidwood> 4.1 Milestones

David Wood: 4.1 Milestones

17:02:51 <davidwood> This section simply refers to “RDF Recommendation Set” as a collection of W3C Recommendations that together define the new version of RDF. The exact editorial structure of these documents is to be defined by the Working Group

David Wood: This section simply refers to “RDF Recommendation Set” as a collection of W3C Recommendations that together define the new version of RDF. The exact editorial structure of these documents is to be defined by the Working Group

17:02:55 <AndyS> q-

Andy Seaborne: q-

17:03:01 <PatHayes> Guus just vanished

Patrick Hayes: Guus just vanished

17:03:03 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

17:04:06 <hsbauer> ivan: we have to clarify.  what is the work ahead of us. explict charter work, remaining work from last time.

Ivan Herman: we have to clarify. what is the work ahead of us. explict charter work, remaining work from last time.

17:04:43 <PatHayes> There are several bugs in the sematnics document that need to be fixed. The sheer editing will take time, measured in at least weeks maybe months, given the need to check all changes.

Patrick Hayes: There are several bugs in the sematnics document that need to be fixed. The sheer editing will take time, measured in at least weeks maybe months, given the need to check all changes.

17:04:53 <hsbauer> david: I agree.  Ivan would you take action item to start the wiki for the f2f

David Wood: I agree. Ivan would you take action item to start the wiki for the f2f

17:05:20 <davidwood> action: Ivan to establish a wiki page for the FTF1 agenda and list initial content

ACTION: Ivan to establish a wiki page for the FTF1 agenda and list initial content

17:05:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - Establish a wiki page for the FTF1 agenda and list initial content [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-03-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-18 - Establish a wiki page for the FTF1 agenda and list initial content [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-03-09].

17:05:32 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

17:05:38 <davidwood> ack Sandro

David Wood: ack Sandro

17:05:38 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to clarify documents

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to clarify documents

17:06:04 <hsbauer> sandro:  no clear notion about how much change needs to be done to existing documents

Sandro Hawke: no clear notion about how much change needs to be done to existing documents

17:06:15 <hsbauer> ... turtle is a new document

... turtle is a new document

17:06:25 <hsbauer> ... are the graphs a new document

... are the graphs a new document

17:06:35 <hsbauer> ... json also a new document

... json also a new document

17:06:35 <PatHayes> It seems clear that Concepts will need at least a thorough editing.

Patrick Hayes: It seems clear that Concepts will need at least a thorough editing.

17:06:54 <PatHayes> Right.

Patrick Hayes: Right.

17:07:26 <AndyS> Don't see how "TriG" fits [if appropriate] but /me assuming that it can fit in TTL if need be.

Andy Seaborne: Don't see how "TriG" fits [if appropriate] but /me assuming that it can fit in TTL if need be.

17:07:38 <hsbauer> david: updates needed, propose continue with existing and add turtle and json

David Wood: updates needed, propose continue with existing and add turtle and json

17:07:50 <sandro> sandro: strawman proposal --  revise each existing document, add two more, JSON and Turtle

Sandro Hawke: strawman proposal -- revise each existing document, add two more, JSON and Turtle [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:07:51 <manu> +1 to Sandro's suggestion on creating new TURTLE and RDFinJSON documents, updating the rest.

Manu Sporny: +1 to Sandro's suggestion on creating new TURTLE and RDFinJSON documents, updating the rest.

17:08:12 <PatHayes> +1 to sandro

Patrick Hayes: +1 to sandro

17:08:18 <webr3> manu, RDF in JSON or RDFable JSON ? v different

Nathan Rixham: manu, RDF in JSON or RDFable JSON ? v different

17:08:20 <manu> AndyS - I'd expect TRiG to be shoved into TURTLE.

Manu Sporny: AndyS - I'd expect TRiG to be shoved into TURTLE.

17:08:25 <AndyS> q+ to ask about N-Triples

Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask about N-Triples

17:08:51 <PatHayes> galapagos?

Patrick Hayes: galapagos?

17:08:59 <gavinc> Can it have a cape?

Gavin Carothers: Can it have a cape?

17:09:03 <manu> webr3 - RDFable JSON (not fond of just shoving RDF triples into a JSON format)

Manu Sporny: webr3 - RDFable JSON (not fond of just shoving RDF triples into a JSON format)

17:09:15 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

17:09:26 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: SteveH (1%), davidwood (29%), PatH (22%), Sandro (19%), Ivan (5%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: SteveH (1%), davidwood (29%), PatH (22%), Sandro (19%), Ivan (5%)

17:09:29 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

17:09:29 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about N-Triples

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask about N-Triples

17:09:37 <sandro> sandro: Maybe the quads-turtle can be superturtle, with some extra features

Sandro Hawke: Maybe the quads-turtle can be superturtle, with some extra features [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:10:08 <hsbauer> AndyS: not precisely defined for n-triples can it be under this banner

Andy Seaborne: not precisely defined for n-triples can it be under this banner

17:10:17 <PatHayes> Sounds like we need a 'various triples formats' document. Can this be in the primer?

Patrick Hayes: Sounds like we need a 'various triples formats' document. Can this be in the primer?

17:10:46 <gavinc> +1 as N-Triples and N-Quads as a subset of Turtle

Gavin Carothers: +1 as N-Triples and N-Quads as a subset of Turtle

17:10:47 <hsbauer> ... hoping n-triples refinement in scope

... hoping n-triples refinement in scope

17:11:09 <hsbauer> sandro: keep n-triples around

Sandro Hawke: keep n-triples around

17:11:10 <webr3> we need registered media type for n-triples

Nathan Rixham: we need registered media type for n-triples

17:11:12 <gavinc> One mime type would be nice.

Gavin Carothers: One mime type would be nice.

17:11:17 <hsbauer> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking?

17:11:18 <AlexHall> I think every implementation of N-Triples treats it as a subset of Turtle anyways, so I don't see much danger there

Alex Hall: I think every implementation of N-Triples treats it as a subset of Turtle anyways, so I don't see much danger there

17:11:28 <Zakim> hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (9%), Sandro (45%), AndyS (46%), Ivan (33%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hsbauer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (9%), Sandro (45%), AndyS (46%), Ivan (33%)

17:11:41 <AndyS> <s> <p> <o> . is different in N-Triples and Turtle

Andy Seaborne: <s> <p> <o> . is different in N-Triples and Turtle

17:11:44 <PatHayes> utf-8 vs ascii is NICE??

Patrick Hayes: utf-8 vs ascii is NICE??

17:11:45 <SteveH> AlexHall, no, many treat it differently

Steve Harris: AlexHall, no, many treat it differently

17:12:01 <gavinc> Yeah, as Turtle is UTF-8 and NTriples is ASCII

Gavin Carothers: Yeah, as Turtle is UTF-8 and NTriples is ASCII

17:12:21 <webr3> ascii-7 bit, all /text tree is us-ascii 7-bit ..

Nathan Rixham: ascii-7 bit, all /text tree is us-ascii 7-bit ..

17:12:48 <sandro> andy: n-triples doesn't resolve uris, so <s> is a valid URI from its perspective, "s".

Andy Seaborne: n-triples doesn't resolve uris, so <s> is a valid URI from its perspective, "s". [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:12:49 <hsbauer> AndyS:  n-triples doesn't say anything about resolving uris.

Andy Seaborne: n-triples doesn't say anything about resolving relative uris.

17:13:09 <mischat> s/resolving uris/resolving relative uris/
17:13:10 <hsbauer> david: gavin raised mime-type registration

David Wood: gavin raised mime-type registration

17:13:20 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

17:13:28 <hsbauer> ivan: unfinished mime-type reg in turtle

Ivan Herman: unfinished mime-type reg in turtle

17:13:46 <AndyS> Very keen to not have N-Triples being text/plain

Andy Seaborne: Very keen to not have N-Triples being text/plain

17:14:01 <sandro> +1 andy

Sandro Hawke: +1 andy

17:14:07 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS

Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS

17:14:19 <hsbauer> david: closing for business.  Adjourning.

David Wood: closing for business. Adjourning.

17:14:34 <hsbauer> ... reminder to participate in task forces.

... reminder to participate in task forces.

17:15:26 <hsbauer> ... scribe for next week  Christopher Matthews?

... scribe for next week Christopher Matthews?

17:15:27 <cmatheus> correct.  yes.

Christopher Matheus: correct. yes.

17:15:33 <cmatheus> I

Christopher Matheus: I

17:15:40 <hsbauer> ... matheus

... matheus

17:15:44 <gavinc> AndyS, yeah: text/plain, application/n-triples, application/x-n-triples, text/n-triples, text/x-n-triples ... ah, NTriples

Gavin Carothers: AndyS, yeah: text/plain, application/n-triples, application/x-n-triples, text/n-triples, text/x-n-triples ... ah, NTriples

17:15:48 <cmatheus> I don't have full telephone access today.

Christopher Matheus: I don't have full telephone access today.

17:16:01 <Zakim> -manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu

17:16:02 <zwu2> thanks

Zhe Wu: thanks

17:16:03 <PatHayes> Bye.

Patrick Hayes: Bye.

17:16:04 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

17:16:04 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

17:16:04 <mbrunati> bye

Matteo Brunati: bye

17:16:05 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:16:05 <Zakim> -cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri

17:16:06 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

17:16:06 <Zakim> -mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat

17:16:06 <AZ> bye

Antoine Zimmermann: bye

17:16:08 <Zakim> -corby

Zakim IRC Bot: -corby

17:16:10 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

17:16:11 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

17:16:14 <Zakim> -webr3

Zakim IRC Bot: -webr3

17:16:17 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

17:16:18 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider

17:16:20 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus_Schreiber

17:16:22 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

17:16:26 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

17:16:28 <Zakim> -mbrunati

Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati

17:16:32 <Zakim> -AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall

17:16:34 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

17:16:36 <Zakim> -??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P2

17:16:40 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon

17:16:42 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ



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This revision (#2) generated 2011-03-04 14:13:11 UTC by 'sbauer2', comments: 'adding Thomas Steiner to the regrets section'